So today we’re going to kind of battle it out between websites and social media. I know this is when you’re starting a business. One of the things you kind of think about is what do I really need for my business? What are the things that are going to help me get off the ground quickly and efficiently without having to invest a lot of time or money into different programs and platforms? And there’s so many options out there. So today we’re going to kind of look at what comes first. Um, the chicken. I was going to say it’s not the chicken or the egg. • • You’re in my head. Get out of my head. • • • • It is social media or is it a website? So let’s just dive right in. I know, Katie, you have some pretty strong thoughts on this, so I’ll let you go first, and then I’ll come in and give you my thoughts.

Speaker B

Well, I’m going to give you guys a quick story. When I first started my business, • • it was because I was laid off from my job and I did not know what the next step would be. I had no idea. I thought I was going to get another corporate job doing marketing. Social media would be one of the side jobs that was going to be part of my tasks. But until I found that next job, • I was just going to see what would happen with my passion for social media. Could I actually make a business doing just social media? And so the very first thing I did, I had a three year old well, I guess two and a half year old at the time. I was pregnant with my second daughter, and it was 930 at night. And I said, okay, the very first thing I need to do is make a website. • • And • • this is the reason why I’m going to tell you guys I made a mistake. I should have sat down and claimed my domain. Sure. • • But I should have claimed all of my social media handles and found my spot on social media because social media, when used the right way when you grab your handles when you optimize your bio. It can really be that many website and • • • • Facebook is one of the most indexed websites from Google. So if I had started • with my social media accounts, writing the right type of captions, posting the right type of content that my ideal client customer was searching, I probably would have gotten more clients than by spending all those nights after my two year old went to bed creating and drafting and writing my own website. So I am team social media. • Kendra, what say you?

Speaker A

So I think all the things you just said are very important and valid and I hear you when I see you. • • I’m going to do my therapy voice. No, I think social media is definitely important and I know for me personally, I did the exact opposite. I did what you did too, but it worked well for me. I jumped right into a website first I grabbed my domain. I actually had a couple of domains that were variations of my business name. They all pointed back to my website, so I grabbed those first. I was fortunate that I didn’t have to worry about social media handles because my business name was kind of unique enough. But for me, • • I’m kind of team website because the website, I mean for my photography business, that is how • • 75% of my people find me is through my website, through a Google search, through SEO. • • There’s a lot of factors that go into being discovered online and through searching things like that. But I also will put like a little asterisk there and say, I think a lot of it depends on the type of business you have. It’s very different between and I kind of get to see both worlds. It’s very different between my locally based photography business that relies a lot on moms going on to Google and searching for a high school senior photographer for their daughter or when I was doing weddings, a bride searching for wedding photographer versus like this more global • • brand with my coaching business and the growth in the business brand where people aren’t just necessarily going in and searching for business coach. And if they are, it’s a much larger pool that I’m trying to compete with. So having the SEO and the website and things like that, it’s very different based on the type of business that you have. But I found that for me having a website as a Homebase where I could house all the contact information and create like blog posts, that was huge for me was having blog content that was a little bit longer format. Whereas with social media you have either limits on your text accounts, character accounts, • you’re uh, not going to write out a whole blog post on Instagram feed or post and have somebody actually read it. So there’s a lot of variations and I think there’s definitely pros and cons to both that. We’ll dive into, • • but • I’m going to go team website for this one. So we’re a, uh, team divided here. But that’s okay. I think having both perspectives is going to be really beneficial.

Speaker B

Well, and this is the thing. I know that there’s so many entrepreneurs who are just getting started • • or they’re thinking, okay, • • how do I get started? What is the very first thing that I should do? And • if someone had said this to me, if I had a mentor that said, hey, Katie, I think that you should do this first, I would have done things differently. I’m not shy to say that I made some big mistakes. I don’t think that doing the website first is a major mistake. But tied along with only doing the website, I didn’t even grab my social media handles. I didn’t even start posting on social media until • • • • • • • • • • the end of 2019. And after being in business for two full years. So that’s time that I lost on building my community around my business and my brand, because I made the mistake that so many small business owners make. I didn’t have time for my own business. I didn’t have time for it. I was so focused on helping my clients and my customers grow their businesses and brands, I put myself on the back burner. Oh, I’ll get to it someday in two years by where I missed out on that opportunity to really dive in and focus on growing my business and my brand on social media. Once I did, things changed.

Speaker A

Yeah. And I think one thing I want to add to that, too, is on the flip side of that, I see this happen a lot is I will have people who I see on posting in social media groups or clients that I’ve worked with. And I’ll say, okay, what have you been doing this week to work on your business? And they’ll be like, oh, well, I went and I updated the photos on my website, and I’ve been working on a couple of blog posts, • • or I’ve been creating one or two posts on Instagram a week. I think that it’s easy to for us to say • • I’m going to do things like build a website. Is that really • • the best use of your time, though? I guess • • • my point I’m going to get back to my point in a minute of website being good, too. But I think that you need to also say, okay, am I putting energy and effort into something in my business that’s not really helping me grow, helping me get out there and find clients and reach clients because I’m scared to do other things? Or is it because that’s how it was for me? I was like, oh, well, I’m quote, unquote working on my business • • • by going in and updating my website, but • • • • • it wasn’t really moving my business forward. Like, those updates. • • • Yeah. Those updates weren’t going to make a difference between whether the client a booked me or not, but it was just my way of kind of feeling like I was doing something when I wasn’t really doing something, if that makes sense.

Speaker B

Yeah. No, it really does, because you don’t realize how much time you end up spending on these tasks that are just simple updates. But really, it ends up being half an hour. And what could you have done productively in that half an hour? No, it makes perfect sense. I think that it’s a wormhole, a rabbit hole that we can end up falling into very easily where you think that you’re working on your business. And it’s not to say don’t pay attention to your website and making updates to it, especially if you haven’t updated your website since 1994. But I mean, there are certain things that are going to move the needle and do need to happen, whereas maybe updating the pictures can be put to the back burner. Now, as I said at the beginning, I am team social media. And it’s not just because I am a social media strategist. But • hear me out. We’re just going to stick with Instagram because if I go down the rabbit hole of all the different social media platforms.

Speaker A

We don’t have all day.

Speaker B

Yes, I know we don’t have all day, but this is just a 30 minutes podcast. So • • I think that if you decided to start, hey, I’m going to start • Next Step Social, or I’m going to start my crocheted quilt for baby dolls company, and it’s going to be my main business. I don’t know why I chose them, but that is I love it. I don’t even know how to crochet.

Speaker A

But anyway, call it Crochet Me Baby. There you go. I already have a business name ready to go for you. This is what I bring to the table. • • •

Speaker B

Okay, so I decided to launch the Instagram page Crochet Me Baby, and I can use Instagram as that mini website. There’s so many different ways that you can show up and build a community and build an audience on Instagram that I think that it can act as your website • • until you get your full blown website launched. Because there’s a lot of different website providers out there that you can use. Which one is the right one? There’s a lot of research that goes into it. So if you decide to just start with Instagram, you can show up in the feed posting pictures of your crocheted, uh, blankets for baby dolls. You can show up in reels showcasing you crocheting the blankets for baby dolls you can show up in IG lives talking about some of the different craft shows that you are going to be going to or some of the different orders that you’re working on. All of these different ways to show up in front of your audience, even if you haven’t even opened your doors yet. It’s going to build people that want to see what’s coming next, and it acts as your sales page. You can even set up a shop through Instagram now. It acts as your sales page. It can act as your behind the scenes getting to know you. I think that if you decide to go all in on social media, when you’re first getting started and you do it the right way, when you have your website done, you’re going to have people ready to buy from you. Okay.

Speaker A

So staying on the topic of social media, I do want to throw out a few questions for you here, because if I’m somebody who is brand new starting a business, Instagram • • can feel very overwhelming. There’s so much to it. I feel like there’s a lot you have to learn. And not to say that everybody starts from ground zero and builds up, but I think that • • • you have to have some skill and knowledge when it comes to how to effectively create a social media. Following an account that is productive and gets you sales and gets you followers and clients and builds connections. So what are the knowledge skills? What’s the prerequisites that someone needs to go into Instagram knowing how to do in order to be effective on social media, if that’s where they decide to kind of build their business.

Speaker B

So if they’ve decided to build their business on just Instagram, I think that you need to have some understanding and a strategy going into it, because one of the things that we talk about a lot, Kendra offline and in our Instagram posts are the different content pillars. How are you going to showcase what it is that you offer? And not everyone really has that understanding when they get started. So, I mean, obviously, signing up to work with a coach or a strategist will definitely • • • • • • • help you with that decision and with figuring out what you should be posting and how to build that audience. But I think that when you’re first getting started, it’s realizing that you are the brand. Uh, and nobody knows your logo yet. Nike didn’t become Nike overnight. It took them a while to get there. We all know the swoosh now. So if you are not Nike and you don’t have that brand and you’re I already forgot the name of our business. The Crochet baby.

Speaker A

There you go.

Speaker B

Nobody knows that logo yet. You have to be willing to show up as your face, with your face as your brand on these different platforms to give people that know, like and trust factor, they’re going to want to support you because they feel like they know you. I come back to this. My daughter, she is a Girl Scout, and I had her make a little video for it was going to just go to my mom and my dad, and I was going to have them share the video with their friends. She did really good at it. And so I posted it on my Facebook timeline. And it was just a 92nd video of her talking about the Girl Scout cookies. I had people that I haven’t talked to in years reach out to me and say, I will buy cookies from her. And it’s because she showed up and she looked cute and she was going through all the cookies and they had somebody to support. Now, I just would have written, hey, • • • my daughter is selling Girl Scout cookies. Come buy them from her. Let me know if you want any. I might have gotten half, maybe even a third of the people responding because they didn’t see her love of being a Girl Scout. They didn’t see how she was excited to be a part of this new community and to sell cookies for the first time. So when people can see that they’re going to want to support you. And I think that it’s the same with the business owner. I’m not saying to show up and be like, hey, everybody, I’m selling crocheted baby blankets now, Hooray and have the money start flowing in. But people will start seeing more and more and more of you. And they’re like, they’re done. Oh, I love that blanket. Oh, look at this one that she did. Oh, my nephew’s going to be having a baby soon. I want to get one of your blankets for him. And I can tell them I follow you on Instagram. I mean, that’s what I’m talking about.

Speaker A

Yeah. It’s hard for me to not jump in and be like, yeah, and this and this and this, because I agree with everything you’re saying. However, I also think that for some people, social media can be a barrier that they have, not that there’s a huge barrier to entry. Obviously, it’s free. You don’t have to pay for it. Whereas with websites, you usually are having a cost that comes with it. But it is very intimidating. And if it’s not done • well or not done, I don’t even say correctly. But if it’s not done in a way that, like you said, connects you to the people, then you could be spending a lot of time and energy on something that’s not going to move the needle very quickly. There’s definitely a flip side to every coin there is.

Speaker B

So tell me your flip side to why I should not focus on social media, which is still getting indexed by Google. It’s still searchable. It still gives you that social proof. It still can help you build your community of people who are ready to buy from you when that website is done. Tell me why I should do my website first.

Speaker A

Well, I think a lot of it for me was about • having • • something that felt like a Homebase for all of my information. Because if you go on to social media, you’re kind of seeing little bits and pieces of somebody’s business. I mean, yes, they can go to your feed, they can scroll through • again, you have one link in your Instagram bio. Where does that link go? Where are you sending people to? Because if you have an email list. Okay, well, okay, send it to an email list. I’ll give you that. I am an advocate for that.

Speaker B

But I just wanted to. • • • • • • • • • • •

Speaker A

Well, you know how to get to me. • • • • • But I think that they have that link there. And if I’m going to, let’s say, crochet me baby, if I find you on Instagram and I’m like, oh, my girls baby dolls be crocheted blankets for their birthdays, let me see what you have. And I go to the link in your bio because your content is fine. I see the blankets, but it’s harder for me to figure out how to buy one. Do I have to message you directly? I just feel like it’s a little more cumbersome. There’s a lot more steps, and we know that the idea of a confused mind doesn’t buy. And so the less • • difficult you can make it for your clients, the better. So if you have a website, because websites were way around longer, way longer than social media, it’s kind of like just something that everyone is asked, like, what’s your website? Where do I go? And I guess a lot of it also depends on your demographics of who you’re targeting. But I think a lot of people are going to be looking for • • a website. They’re going to be asking like, okay, where do you live on the internet? Social media is great. But again, we don’t own those platforms. What happens if Instagram goes down again? What happens if social media? What if your account gets shut down? Just like I talk about in the email list, having a website that you can direct people to, they can then go find you if they’re like, oh, her Instagram is gone. But I really wanted to buy this baby blanket. They still know where to go to find that baby blanket or whatever you’re offering. • • • • • • • • I heard it here first, folks.

Speaker B

Crocheted baby happens on the business.

Speaker A

So we need to grab that handle. • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •

Speaker B

I agree. Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg, man, you own my followers on Instagram and Facebook. Bill Gates, you on my LinkedIn, and Rohan and Paul, you own all my people on Clubhouse. So that is true. It’s true. We don’t own that community.

Speaker A

Yeah, • • • I’m not saying this is not. I know we said versus, but it all has to work together. And I think that having a website is just this foundational piece. It gives you a little bit of validity. So people are like, oh, okay, she’s not just someone who popped up on Instagram. And is it legit? Like, if I’m going to send you money to buy this baby blanket that costs $150?

Speaker B

Because, my God, these are some expensive stuff.

Speaker A

Hey, it’s handmade with lots of love, Katie. • • • • • • • • • • • • •

Speaker B

I agree. No, • • 100% agree. I have been. I can’t think of a good word. Snaked. I don’t know. • • • Yeah, I’ve been duped on Facebook. There’s been plenty of things where I’m like, perfect example. We were going to get some as we, um, have two little girls, and they love kicking the back of the car. Of the seats in the car.

Speaker UNK

Yes. • • •

Speaker B

I wanted to get some nice seat covers for my husband’s car whenever we were going up to the mountains because there was snow and mud and it was a mess. And so I wanted to get them some nice seat covers. But they were expensive. And Facebook, • • they knew I was searching for some seat covers. So what pops up in my feed but some car seatback covers, I saw them. I was like, these look legit. They’re leather. Look at all the spots that they can put their books and their water bottles, their leather, $35 for one, or if you order two, it’s for a Penny. So I was like, okay, well, 35 one, I’ll get two of them. That’s a steal. What shows up four months later not joking was felt the felt seatback covers that literally I could rip with my hands. • This was not what I mhm ordered. And who did I have to deal with? I had to deal with somebody that didn’t speak any English. That was a factory out of China. And I got duped. I didn’t do my research. I trusted their Facebook page, which, by the way, had zero posts. But they did have reviews. • • • • •

Speaker A

They were probably all fake. Exactly. • • •

Speaker B

And this is one of the things you can do that you can fake your pages, you can fake your reviews, you can fake your followers. But I went to their page, I was like, oh, they just haven’t posted. They probably just do ads. They look real. They have plenty of reviews. And I got duped. So I definitely feel like, yeah, you’re kind of right, Kendra.

Speaker A

Yeah, well, I mean, not to say that you can’t have a fake website, too, because there are things I’ve come across that too. The same exact thing almost. You’re like, okay, I’m looking for this thing. You go on Facebook, you see an ad, you click on it, it takes you to a website somewhere. It all looks legit • • • this day and age. Unfortunately, that’s just the case. You’re going to have those people who are out there scamming you. But I do think that as a small business, one way that you can kind of say to your followers, like, hey, I am legit is that you don’t just have just an Instagram account or just a Facebook page. You need to have more than that in order for people to say like, okay, this is somebody who has put in the time and energy to create a business. You have a URL, you have a great looking website. You have social proof with social media. • • All these things kind of go in together. But I do think when it comes to websites too, it’s not as simple as just saying, okay, I’m going to go create a website. And I’m curious, when you’ve created your first website, do you remember what platform you used?

Speaker B

It was Squarespace.

Speaker A

Okay. And what was your experience with Squarespace?

Speaker B

So I use Squarespace because I didn’t really have a ton of training on creating a website. It was very easy to drag and drop it. I could buy my URL directly through the Squarespace website, and it made things really easy to use templates. A year later, I went and got certified with WordPress creation. So I know how to build and maintain an entire WordPress site. Now. It’s great just to know how to do it. I don’t do any website building, just for the record, but I wanted to know how to do it. But I still have my next step. Socialcommunications.com is still on Squarespace, just because the idea of transferring everything over to WordPress is extremely daunting.

Speaker A

Okay, so this is my. • I will give you my kind of what you should do if you’re thinking • • maybe you already have your social set up and now you’re ready for a website or you’re like, well, no, I really want to build that good, solid foundation of a website. Not all website platforms are created equal. It’s kind of like when I talk about email marketing platforms, you have, like, your mail chimps of the world, which are they’re cheap, they’re easy. Everybody knows to go to them. Everybody thinks that where they should go first. But once you start getting into it, you realize pretty quickly this is not the best fit for me long term. And then you have your high end • active campaign entrepreneur that cost more, but they have all the bells and whistles. They may not be for the • starting up email marketing person. • Websites are the same way. The one that I see a lot of people talking, um, about is Wix, because it is, I believe it’s free completely. I think, or maybe there’s like a small fee, uh, but it’s fairly cost effective. And they tout themselves as being like, quick and easy. It’s easy for beginners. Here’s the problem that I have, um, with Wix, because especially, I know a lot of photographers that have used Wix. One, you have very limited control over the design of your website. So if you are someone who visually wants a really nice website, it’s not going to work for you. And two, you don’t have SEO control. So this is a big thing. And for anyone who is not familiar, SEO is search engine optimization. So it is how easily are you able to be discovered if somebody goes into Google and searches for a keyword? If someone says, I’m looking for a social media manager in Denver, Colorado, how easily will Katie’s company come up? And so that’s SEO. And if you don’t have control of your SEO settings and features. It’s going to be really hard for them to find you because your website lives on their platform. So unless somebody is specifically searching for your website name, you’re probably not going to come up necessarily. So Square Space is actually, I don’t think it’s a terrible one. You do have more control over your SEO features. It’s kind of like what I would say the next step up. You hear it talked a lot about, • • I know a lot of podcasts. I listen, um, to • • • Squarespace are sponsors of their podcast. They use them for their websites. It’s a good, it is easy to use drag and drop. • • • • • I’ve used WordPress and I love WordPress. It’s the most robust website platform. You have complete control of almost everything you do, uh, on there. However, it is not something that you can just like log in at night by yourself when your two and a half year old is on the bed. And yes, no, it requires a lot more knowledge, skill • you have to have. A lot of times you pair it with like a Profoto or I use Show it, which is another platform that I really love. It gives you kind of one of those in between where it gives you the SEO functionality, but you also have a lot of super easy drag and drop. I actually have helped a couple people design their show at sites and it’s kind of fun for me to be on the creative end. But • the big thing is when you are starting out your website, • • • if you know that you have a pretty big vision of what you want your site to be and it’s not just a simple information based, you probably need to have somebody help you do it. Because this is one of those areas where • • • • • • • • if you really want it to be done well and you want it to look a certain way, you’re going to spend so much time and energy and frustration trying to get it done yourself when you could hire somebody else to do it for you and it’s done. Now, I know that’s an investment • you’re including a cost there, but it’s worth it if that’s where you feel like you’re going to get the best return on your investment there. I will say one more thing is domains. Go get your domains. Like, if you have a business name like Katie and I have just discovered, trying to get a domain for our business, uh, besties brand that we’re building here, it’s not always going to be available the way you want it. So if you have a business company, just like Katie was saying with grabbing those Instagram handles, those social media handles, if you are like, okay, I know I’m going to want to build this website. I want it to have this domain. Go get it, go buy it now. Because someone else is going to snag it up and sit on it and try to charge you a ton of money in the future for it. So go grab those domains while you can.

Speaker B

I agree with everything that you said, Kendra, and I think that what it really comes down to is when you are ready to start your own business, • • there’s a lot of thought that needs to go into it other than what is it called and what are my logos going to be? There’s a lot of different steps that you need to take and all of them need to be done intentionally and with a strategy in mind. So grabbing those domains, figuring out do you have the budget to have a website designer build you a SEO strong website that people are going to be clicking on and buying from you from? Are you ready on social media? Are you promoting yourself out there? Are you showing up and building a community around your brand and your business? Are you ready to sell and have your Instagram Act as that many websites so people can learn more about you and your product? All of these things are part of the bigger picture and they all have to be done intentionally. So that way when you’re ready when you’re ready to open your doors and say come buy from me, you have an audience that’s ready to buy from you both through search and organically. • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •