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Hey there. Welcome to episode 174 of The Girl Means Business podcast. Today we are going to be talking all about branding. This is something that I get really excited about. It’s one of those things I kind of geek out about in my business. I think branding is so important and when I first started my business, my idea of branding was a really cute logo, maybe a nice website, but I had really no clue what branding was or what it meant. And over the last several years, I have really kind of grown to appreciate a really great brand. It’s one of those sort of glass shattering moments of once you understand what makes a brand really great, you start to notice when a brand is doing something really well, when they’re being smart and strategic, but you also kind of notice when brands are missing the mark a little bit. So it’s a catch way too. But it’s kind of fun to have sort of an insider perspective and be able to look at a brand and go, oh, they’re really killing it, or be able to look at one and go, oh, you know, they’re missing this piece and being able to identify what that piece is because you’ve done it in your own business. So I’m excited to dive into our conversation today. Now, if you missed last week’s episode, I encourage you to hit pause for just a second or maybe go listen.

Speaker B: To it after you listen to this.

Speaker A: Episode, because last week’s episode, episode 173, was all about infusing your personality into your brand, which I think is a really big part of your brand. You are your business, you are the face of your business. Unless you are running this massive corporation, you are the person that people are going to be connecting with. When someone inquires about your products or your services or places an order or books a service with you, it’s you who’s going to be interacting with them. So it’s important that you infuse your personality into that so that your audience gets to know you. So if you haven’t listened to the episode yet, make sure you go back and listen to episode 173. I am really excited to introduce you to our guest today. Lisa Haggis helps service based entrepreneurs position their business as one of a kind in their field for higher visibility, impact and earning potential. She leverages 18 years of experience in marketing and business strategy and she’s committed to cracking the code on what makes a business immediately interesting and worth mentioning now. Hence, it begins with having something original to say. We’ll get into that in our conversation today. She’s the founder of Realize Your Brand, a high touch business consultancy and the creator of the substantial branding method, an approach that transforms your growing business into the legacy level brand that you uniquely are meant to create. We had a great conversation around branding. I cannot wait for you to meet her. She’s an incredible source of information and knowledge. So let’s, uh, jump into my conversation with Lisa.

Speaker B: Hi, Lisa. Welcome to the Growing Business Podcast. Thank you so much for being here today.

Speaker C: Thank you, Kendra. It’s so awesome to be here.

Speaker B: Well, I’m excited to chat with you. We’re going to get all into branding in our business, but I want you to introduce yourself and talk a little bit about who you are, what you do. Kind of give us a little version of your story.

Speaker C: Great. Yeah. So I am the founder of Real Life, your brand. Uh, I’m a brand strategist and a Clarity Advisor to my clients. I help them get crystal clear on who they are and the business that they’re building so that they can put it into an unrepeatable brand that makes marketing a lot easier for them.

Speaker B: Nice. I love that clarity advisor. I haven’t heard that one before. So we’re going to get all into the nitty gritty. But tell me sort of in the simplest terms what branding means to you, because I think a lot of people have an idea of what it is, but a lot of people also have their own version of it. So what is it to you?

Speaker C: Yeah, well, so I’ll share that my background was in marketing. And so that, I think, really informs why branding matters to me. Because in the marketing world, you’re trying to get in front of people. You’re trying to get their attention, get them to buy your things, um, and really connect. And you’re putting your offers and your message and your business in front of them. And branding is making sure that the things you’re putting in front of them are actually enticing, compelling, what they’re looking for, unique, um, and original. And so to me, branding is all of those core decisions that you make right at the essence of your business. To say, this is who we are, this is what we stand for, this is the change we’re making, this is how we’re doing it, this is who we’re doing it for. And so it is all of those critical pieces that really form the foundation for who you are to people, what they expect from you, why they would choose you, and why they would recommend you to somebody else.

Speaker B: No, I love that description. And for someone I’ve been in business for myself for a decade now, in various ways, in shapes and forms. But now it makes sense to me. Like, I can wrap my brain around that. But when I was first starting a business that wasn’t even sort of on my radar of what branding meant, I think a lot of people think of brand as like, oh, it’s my logo, it’s my colors, it’s my font. And that’s, I think, a piece of it. But you’re saying it’s a much deeper, broader piece than just the sort of aesthetics of what we show.

Speaker C: Yes. Yes. Because really what you’re trying to do is you’re trying to get people to get an instant sense of why they can trust you, why they would choose you. You’re trying to draw people in. And a logo doesn’t really do that. Nobody recommends a service or product to somebody else because of the logo or colors. They recommend it because of the way that company made them feel, the way that that product was something they hadn’t seen before or, like, it’s just stories worth telling. And so it’s that innately interesting, like, the interest factor at the core of the business that people are saying, hey, I’ve never seen this, or, you got to check this out. And that takes, um, intention, like, as you’re kind of designing or engineering what your actual business is, that’s when you’re building your brand.

Speaker B: So I’m going back in my mind to when I first started my business. My first business was a photography business. And I think back to kind of that moment when I went from, okay, this is just a hobby I do for fun, and maybe people kind of pay me every once in a while to do a photo shoot too. I’m starting a business, and everything you’re saying would feel very overwhelming to me at that point in my business. So how can we kind of simplify that for someone who is maybe like, oh, that sounds really big and broad and scary? Like, how can we kind of make it a little less scary?

Speaker C: Yes. Thank you. I don’t want this to be scary. Let’s break it down. So, um, the very first thing is to remember that the pieces are always the same. You need to remember who you’re serving, and you need to know what problems you’re solving for that person. And so that never changes. That is the key to succeeding in business. I call this value. You need to understand the value you provide to people. And so, as a photographer, if it’s brand photography, you’re helping them grow their business. You’re helping them make money. Like, that stuff is very solid, concrete foundational. Um, but where you go next as a business owner and it doesn’t matter what size is your unique point of view on how to help them make that happen. And so, again, like, if you’re a brand photographer, you have your own opinions, your own beliefs and values about what it means to help a client be seen through their photography, connect through their photography. There are things that you know and that matter to you about how you want to make that happen for your clients. That’s the stuff that’s going to set you apart. To say maybe, um, you believe that I’ve, um, worked with a photographer and she had this beautiful statement that nothing is more beautiful than real life and that stand for that and letting it kind of actually shine through. And how she, um, captures the essence of her clients, uh, and also the experience that she’s like making sure that you know what you stand for and your unique point of view and then making sure it’s showing up in the experience, it’s showing up in your messaging, it’s showing up in your offerings. And it can be simple. Uh, there’s no business that’s too small to really take a stand for how you see things differently and make sure that you’re doing things a little bit differently because of it, instead of just following kind of the norm and the way everybody else does it.

Speaker B: So I’m going to play devil’s advocate for a second just to kind of get some people’s wheels turning. So the idea of photography, that one I’m a little more versed in. So I’m going to step out of that for a little while and I’m going to say, let’s say someone listening is like, okay, I make custom stationery and I sell it on Etsy. What does it matter what my personal views or values or opinions are if I’m just creating this, like, stationary and sending it to whoever needs it?

Speaker C: I love that. So stationery could very easily become a commodity. What’s the difference between this notebook and this notebook and this pen or pad of paper or whatever? And so in an instance like that, it’s even so much more important that you build more story around your products so that people aren’t just seeing a notebook, they’re seeing who they want to become in that notebook. And the way that you tell, uh, that story, like, that this notebook is about becoming a certain kind of person is by taking a stand, by knowing who you’re talking to. Like, maybe your stationery is specifically for mothers and you want your stationery to actually feel like a moment of pause and a deep breath for mothers. And you want to believe that and like your beliefs, you’re taking a stand that everybody deserves a break, everybody deserves a beautiful moment just to themselves. You can see how some of the kind of ideals and perspectives could come out and what that might end up looking like. If you’ve got a physical product, it’s beautiful because you can put that into the design. You can put little messages in it. Your marketing, the packaging that it actually comes in could have a little notes like, hey, you’re doing amazing. And so it’s about knowing what message you really want to give to those people who you’ve chosen are your people who are going to be receiving your product, using your product and changing their lives through the use of your product.

Speaker B: So you mentioned kind of knowing who your product is for product or service. You don’t have to be a product base for this to apply, but I want to kind of stick with the idea of the stationery just because we started with that. And I say this a lot. I talk about this a lot of the podcasts on social media is one of the first things I do with any of my coaching clients, is you have to be very, like you said earlier, crystal clear. Get clarity around who it is, your audience or who are you trying to attract, who are you trying to serve? And I know when I started my business, this is a struggle, because I was like, well, I take pictures. Like, I’ll take pictures of anybody. And there was a time in my business where I literally took pictures of people’s pet. I just didn’t have this ideal version of who I was working for or who I wanted to work for. But I think that now, and I have more clarity around this. Knowing who your business is designed for is such a key factor, because the stationary idea, if you’re making stationary, like you said, for moms who need kind of a break in their day, they want to feel in the chaos of their house, the chaos of the carpool and children’s activities and playrooms and toys. They want something that feels clean and simple and organized or whatever. Maybe it’s a Todo list notepad, or maybe it’s, like you said, an organizer notebook. And if that can bring some calm to their chaos, that’s very different branding and messaging than if you are speaking to maybe like, a corporate woman who needs it more for her correspondence with her clients or taking notes in meetings. Um, that’s two very different people. So how can we really narrow down who our audience is if we’re still in that phase of, I don’t know who I want to attract, um, I don’t know who my audience is or the fear zone of I don’t want to eliminate, um, the possibility of a corporate woman coming and buying my stationary when I’m really targeting moms. How can we kind of get clarity around that without feeling that fear?

Speaker C: Yeah, well, the first thing is you get to choose. A lot of times, I think, um, this kind of feels like, um, a journey where you need to get to your one answer, where it’s like, there’s only one option out there that’s going to lead to success, and that’s going to be right for me and my business. But that’s not really true. You get to choose. You get to choose the audience that you’re going to want to wake, um, up for each day and make a difference for. And so it really is a choice. And so what’s happening most, um, of the time is we’re avoiding the choice. Um, and we’re telling ourselves it’s not hurting us because we’re staying, you know, up high and trying to talk to everybody. But like, the example you just gave, um, I really like I like that because it illustrates something. If you try to please them both, you’re actually not really serving either of them to the fullest. And so often this talk about finding your target market or your ideal client, it sounds like it’s for, um, you. So it’s going to help you market to them. And that’s great, but it’s actually for them. Because if you’re trying to make your offerings relevant to everybody, then you’re going to have an offering that isn’t as transformational or effective or useful to any of the people you’re serving. And you don’t want that. It’s not going to result in business success because you’re not going to be getting the referrals and the rating customers. But I love that example. It really illustrates why I do this. And there’s a few things that I like to say. The first is, who cares about what you care about? And so often, people jump, um, right to demographics, income, um, things like that. Uh, what do you care about most? So that if you want to show up as yourself and talk about things that matters to you, your people, um, the people who you have built your offerings for and your business for are the same, who are going to be resonating with that content. Because you might be taking a stand for women’s rights or feminism, but if you’ve built your, um, business for a completely different audience, that those kinds of, like that kind of, uh, value based messaging is going to turn them off, then you’ve got a real mismatch. So your values and what you care about, what you want to talk about, and how you want to connect with people, that’s always, I think, number, um, one. And that’s a psychographic or like a behavioral kind of segmentation versus the demographic.

Speaker B: Well, can I pause, um, because I’ve had this question brought up a couple of times with coaching clients. I see it on Facebook a lot, where people are like, what if? Because I always say you do have to have a personal connection, in my opinion, to your audience that you’re trying to target, because otherwise you’re just going to like you said, you’re going to be talking about one thing, and they’re going to be looking for something different. There’s going to be a disconnect. But I hear people all the time say, what if I’m not my ideal client? What if I’m not that person? What if we’re very different? My opinion is there has to be something that connects you. And you may have different demographics, so you may live in a different place. You may have a different income level. I live in the country on two acres, but I have a coaching client who lives in the middle of the city in a downtown apartment. That’s a demographic that doesn’t necessarily have to be the same. But like you said, the psychographics, the behavioral, things like those have to be somewhat connected. Do you agree?

Speaker C: If you want your brand to be authentic, yes. And you want your brand to be authentic. So, yes, because there are brands, um, out there that have built up a personality, uh, messaging, et cetera, that resonates with a specific kind of client that possibly, um, is all fabricated. And these might be large brands with teams that are kind of showing up to create that personality and that kind of character behind the brand. Uh, but if it’s working, I guarantee you that brand is somehow cultivating those values within the company. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be resonating, it wouldn’t be connecting, because people only connect when they feel like something is genuine and authentic. And so, yeah, if you are a, um, founder and entrepreneur, and whether or not you’re the face of your business, you don’t have to be. You’re still the best source for those really interesting raw materials that your brand will be made up of. And so, like, values so your values should really determine who you want your clients to be.

Speaker B: Yeah, I completely agree. I always like to hear and make sure other people see what other people’s opinions are, because I’m open to maybe I’m not always on the right track, but I think we both agree that you have to have something that resonates. Otherwise, and I see this a lot, too, where people will try to create this persona, like you said, of who they think their audience or who they think, um, their product or services for, and eventually it fizzles out because they can’t keep up this facade of the person they think their audience wants. That’s where we got the whole era of instagram that was so polished and perfected and all the things. And then people were like, no, I want to see real. I want to see you with a messy bun and no makeup on talking to me. Not necessarily the mom who’s done up every day, and her kitchen is perfect, and her kids are all matching outfits. That’s not real life. You have to have, like you said, the values and the connection that go with who it is you’re trying to attract.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker B: So let’s talk about how that translates into the messaging, because I also think there are people who are like, okay, I got it. I know who my audience is. I know who she is, or whatever. I’m clear on that. But how does that translate into what I put out into the world?

Speaker C: Yeah. So I kind of started a little back about talking about how there’s value. Right. And so I have, like, my model for branding is kind of the three different areas that you need to cover with your messaging, with just your existence as a business. And value is right in the center. So some of your messaging is telling people how you can help them. So, you know, here’s the problem you’re having here’s. The outcomes we can create here’s. Some of the benefits of those outcomes are the smaller wins and making sure that you’re actually getting them excited about what will happen if they buy from you. That’s just, like, straight to the point marketing. And that’s value meaning is the next piece. And that’s a lot of what we were just talking about that’s getting deeper, sharing with people what you believe in, sharing with people your vision for the world and how you like, kind of your deeper wish for them and connecting with them in that way. And so that’s content that lend messaging that should be out there, like, hey, this matters, because this and what is that deeper reason why this matters? And then the last piece is originality. And that’s when you’re getting out there and you’re giving them those beliefs and opinions that we talked about that they haven’t necessarily heard anywhere else. But that’s missing information as to either why they’re not getting what they want or why they don’t understand, um, the value in what you’re providing. So, for example, for stationery, maybe somebody, um, thinks digital is better. Um, and you really strongly you’ve tried both. You have evidence. Maybe you’re actually researching or testing. You have information to say, hey, guys, women actually digital is what is causing you to be completely unproductive. That’s an example of a piece of your message that would be originality, that would make a case for why, um, your stationary it’s not just your stationary. It’s all stationary, all stationary benefits. But because you’re the one saying it, people are going to look at your stationery. And so that’s that originality piece, which is really the part that a lot of people ask me about, because there’s a lot of great resources out there on, um, how to build your brand promise and tell people what you can do and to build your purpose and whatever. But the way that people are told they need to stand out, that’s my piece of the originality puzzle is, uh, like, it’s not your personality. Uh, it’s not that you need to be the loudest or it’s not your logo or your colors. It’s actually your point of view. And start with that and find out what it is you have to say that they haven’t heard before about your industry. Uh.

Speaker B: And this is just coming from the peoplepleaser version of me, the one I’m really trying to work through, but it’s a little bit scary to want to say, like, you should be the one to stand up and speak out about something that you find, because, again, I’ll use the station example. If all these other people are saying, digital is the way to go, and you’re going the other direction, saying, no, actually a pen and paper planner, or having like a written out todo list that you put in your purse and take the grocery store for your grocery list or whatever you can physically check things off of for your to do list, that’s the way to go. That can feel a little bit intimidating because now you are standing up and kind of saying like, no, I think something different. So do you have any tips or advice for people who are kind of like me, who are like, I don’t really want to buck the system, but I do want, um, to have my own thoughts put um, in there as well.

Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. So the first is to understand that if you’re going to be taking that stand, you’re doing it from a place of service. And um. So you might hear an example. And it might sound really controversial and scary. But when you find your message. Uh. I call it your revolutionary message. When you find yours. Um. It’s not going to feel scary in the same way it’ll still feel scary because putting yourself out there is scary. But it’s going to feel like you have no choice because it is service for you to show up and share this information. And the other thing that I want to say is that’s also why it’s so important to be clear on who you’re serving. Because big, broad statements like that often aren’t going to be true for everybody. So to say that Physical Notebook is going to win out over digital, uh, every time, it’s probably going to mean that you’re not right. But if you know that your audience are moms on the go and that, um, pulling up their phone is going to get them distracted and you’ve actually worked with enough or experienced enough in your life and in your business that you have some evidence of this that you have seen, then you can say to that specific audience, this is the piece you’re missing. Here’s why you want to use physical, because you’re going to open it and nothing else is going to distract you. Your phone is different. And so you kind of need that bit of a triangle between who the audience is, what they’re trying to accomplish, and then that kind of statement that you’re taking for how this audience is best going to accomplish that thing.

Speaker B: Yeah, that’s so good. If anybody is starting a planner company, let me know because this is the perfect research. We’re getting real time brain dumped here because I literally have my paper planner sitting next to me right now open with my daily todo list and then my ongoing, like, running to do list. And I know exactly what you said. If I put this in my phone, either A, I would forget about it and not check it. And two weeks from now, I’d open up that app and be like, oh yeah, I was supposed to do that one thing two weeks ago, or which has happened a million times. I opened my phone fully prepared. I’m going to go to this app.

Speaker A: And look at my to do list.

Speaker B: Or my calendar, and the next thing I know, I’m in Instagram for 30 minutes, and I’m like, I closed the phone and I’m like, oh, yeah, I was supposed to be doing something else. So it is very true, and I definitely think this comes back to the idea that you have to know your audience so well, which means you have to have some kind of personal connection to who they are in order to understand them, or be willing, I guess, to put in all, um, the research. But I personally think it helps to have that personal connection to who your audience is yeah.

Speaker C: And to your craft. If you’ve just started a business in a field that you don’t really care about, but because you thought you could make money in it, you’re not going to be as dedicated to kind of immersing yourself in the whole world of it, to kind of see these things that other people aren’t seeing. But that’s why I like to say it’s like, it kind of requires a bit of obsession. I am obsessed with what makes businesses interesting, and so I see things because of that obsession. I’m immersed in it. I like and sleep, um, and breathe it. And so I feel like that’s a helpful ingredient. If you want to find your unique point of view, you have to actually really care about what it is you’re doing.

Speaker B: Well, I think, yeah, on the flip side, that’s how you can maybe tell the other way around that this isn’t the best fit for you. Because if you aren’t I’m not saying you have to think about it all day, every day, but if you’re not excited about what you do, if you’re not passionate about it, if you don’t stay up till the middle of the night thinking of ideas or whatever, then this might be a sign that you need to make a Pivot of some kind. I know I did a couple of network marketing programs, um, back in the day when I was teaching, and I was trying to figure out what it is I could do to make some extra money. And one of them was a skincare brand. And I have always loved skincare. I’ve always been someone who, like, I wanted to go into dermatology at one point. I was like, this is perfect. But I got into it and realized really quickly, I was like, I’m not passionate about it. I enjoy it myself, but it’s not something I want to I’m not passionate about enough that I can convince somebody else or share it with other people in a super exciting way. And so I definitely like that kind of idea that you have to have this passion behind what. You do in order for it to be it comes across. It comes across in everything that you do. So before we kind of get things wrapped up, because I don’t want to take up too much of your time here, but we talked about who you serve, kind of what the problem is that you serve your unique point of view. Um, you also mentioned, like, building story around your brand. Um, and I love this idea. One of my favorite books of all time that I recommend to everybody is Building a Story Brand with Donald Miller. Love that book. I’ve read a couple of other ones, like Stories That Stick and things like that. So I love the idea of storytelling in theory. I’m not so great at putting it into practice, so I would love to know what tips or thoughts or what you have around that idea.

Speaker C: Yeah, well, one of the tips that I like to share is to think back to kind of moments or periods of high emotion, um, in your own kind of I’m trying not to say story. So if you kind of go back and you think, what are the things that really are still sticking with me in terms of I either was scared or I was heartbroken, or I was so, uh, proud of myself. The emotions are really good kind of markers in your own life to find things that other people will also find engaging. And then you don’t have to necessarily, um, tie them right into, like, a perfect bow around your own brand or the outcome that you provide, um, for people or anything like that. Because stories can also just be a great way to either kind of convey, um, your values and kind of why you care about certain things. They’re also great for building that know, like, trust factor. And so I think it’s about knowing which stories are the ones that are the absolute core to the way that you do things in business. So I have a story that I tell about being a marketing person and having to market businesses that had nothing unique about them. And that is, like, a core story that I use to kind of share why it’s so important to me to create an interesting business so that marketing can just be telling the truth. And so that’s, like, really core to my brand. But then I’ll have other supplementary, um, stories that are really just about more about what’s made me me about being let go and needing to kind of take all of these papers, um, off of my desk that the day before I thought were the most important thing in the world. And really learning, like, nobody gets to waste my time. That’s not really core to the outcome I create for clients or anything like that. But it formed one of my values, which is life well spent and, like, spending my time with purposeful, intention, and not sweating all of the small stuff or allowing other people’s false sense of urgency to kind of come into my sense of peace. And so not related to my core, core thing, but, um, related to who I am and still very likely to connect with my ideal clients who value those same things. And so emotions, your core story, and then those things that you know, will kind of signal to people who you are so that you can use those stories to help the right people feel attracted and the wrong people know that you’re not for them.

Speaker B: I like how you broke that down, by the way. Because I know for me, a lot of times I think of the big stories and they forget about kind of the little small pieces of those stories or other stories. Where are we supposed to be sharing these stories, and in what way? Because, um, I know for a lot of people, our first thought is, well, my kind of go to is social media. That’s where I kind of put myself out there. And with social media changes, everything is about how quickly you can share something. We have stories and reels and TikToks and all these things that are like, 60 seconds or less. So how do you share a story type content in a way that grabs attention and that’s a shorter format?

Speaker C: It’s a good question. The first thing I want to confess is I’m an undersharer. And so I have lots of untold stories myself. And, um, I have certainly not cracked the code on the best way to, um, turn stories into what the social media channels are going to love. But I’m very much about authenticity and truth and what works. And so, um, for me, the purpose of your stories is to connect and inspire. And so you can tell your story in person with just one person. I’ll share my stories in sales calls. I’ll share, um, my stories when I’m working with a client and I want to relate to them. And so I just want to say that you get to tell your story in any format and as an undershare. And a lot of people who end up in my circle and my community are also under sharers. It’s just that reminder that people want genuine and they want to connect with you. And if you share your story in whatever way you can, you get to you don’t have to hold that back and worry that you’re bothering, um, them or taking up their time or boring them. And so for social media, I think you got to get over the gatekeep tactics and things like that and just keep telling your story in whatever format. And I wouldn’t think I think you’ve got to find the format that works for you. Anytime that I’ve kind of really gotten into live video or interviews, those are my two times where stuff will come out naturally. Um, and so I’m much better off spending my time that way than trying to create a bunch of reels, personally, because reels are not my thing and they’re never going to resonate with my people because I’m not going to be in them fully. Whereas if I show up on a live video and I’m just like telling my story, that’s the best way for me to tell my story. And other people Might be great at telling their stories through Reals. And so it’s about finding your Natural I call it your natural currency. Um, like the way that you provide value without even having to try and then put your stories in there instead of thinking that you need to do it just because this is the hottest thing on Instagram right now. If you have the bandwidth to be playing with that kind of stuff and you enjoy it, awesome. Um, but if that’s going to completely take your day away and all you did was one reel, which would be my case, then you’re probably better off getting into some coffee dates with humans than actually telling your story that way. So that’s my piece on that.

Speaker B: I love that. I was just writing that down. Like find your natural currency. I think that’s so key. And I kind of talk about this when it comes to what’s your core content like, where do you kind of gravitate towards? And I think for me, podcasting has always been sort of my currency because I can just talk to people all day long. I mean, it gives me energy, it fills me up. I leave every conversation feeling like I learned something, I met somebody, I had a great time, and I can go about my day. And honestly, surprisingly, Instagram reels have kind of become, um, a little bit of my natural currency. I enjoy it more than I ever would have thought that I would. But I love that idea of just like it has to come naturally to some degree. There’s a learning curve for everything. But, yeah, everybody gravitates towards different things that they’re good at. And if you’re not good at real time conversations and doing live things may not be best for you. If you’re an amazing writer, which I envy people who have these incredible copywriting skills, then maybe it’s blogging, maybe it’s creating carousel posts, maybe it’s writing all the Facebook content, whatever it is. But yeah, find your natural Currency. I think that’s so key. So thank you for that jim of information there. Well, Lisa, this has been fascinating. I could talk branding and marketing and business with you all day long, like you were saying about how you eat, sleep and breathe. That’s how I feel, too. This is fascinating to me and I love it. But thank you so much for your time today. Thank you so much for sharing with us. Please tell everybody how, um, they can find you, how they can get in touch with you if they have questions or want to reach out to you.

Speaker C: Yeah, well, first of all, thank you so much for having me, Kendra. Yes, I would love if anybody is looking for clarity, messaging, positioning up leveling their business through their brand, they can find [email protected] or on social media at realizeyourbrand and you can book a consult, um, with me. Just we can connect and have a conversation. And so I look forward to connecting.

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Hey there and welcome to episode 159 of the Girl Means Business Podcast. Now, if you’ve listened to this show for a while or maybe you follow me over on Instagram, then you know I have a deep love for the Enneagram. I am an Enneagram seven through and through. And while I fully believe that the Enneagram is a great assessment and a great tool for helping us to dive deeper into who we are, I know that it’s not the only tool out there. As a former teacher, I spent many staff development days taking various personality tests to find better ways to work together with team members and communicate better. And they were good. They were helpful, they were insightful, but none of them quite fit me the way that the Enneagram did. Now, I also realized that Enneagram is just kind of one part of who we are as people. It’s one assessment. So when I learned about this other sort of diagram of who we are, the human design, my interest was piqued. I was like, I would love to know more about this because I’m on this journey to discover as much about myself as I can so that I can become the best version of myself that I can. So when I was approached by today’s guest, Casha, I was like, you are an expert in this human design space. I want to know more about what this is, how it can help us understand ourselves better, how it can help us in our business to become better leaders. What all is human design. So she actually had me kind of do a human design assessment. She sent me the results, and we go through those today in our conversation. It’s all very exciting. It’s very interesting and fascinating. If you’re like me and you like to learn as much as you can about yourself, I highly encourage you to listen to this episode and then go to the Mission Recruit website. It’s leaked down the show notes and use code GMB 20 for 20% off of your assessment. And again, even if you’re someone who maybe loves any grand, maybe you’ve never even taken the personality assessment. I think it’s really smart for all of us to have a good understanding of kind of who we are as leaders, as people, as members of a family or society. So definitely go use that code. Get your 20% [email protected] All right, guys, let’s go ahead and jump into my conversation on human design today with Casha Jacozian.

All right, guys, I’m here with Kesha we’re going to be talking today about human design. I’m so excited because this is something that I am not super familiar with that I’ve been wanting to learn more about. So, Kesha, welcome to the Girl Means Business podcast. How are you?

I’m doing well. Thank you so much for having me today.

Speaker C: Yeah, I’m excited to get into this. So before we dive into all the things human design, tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do and how you got into this space.

Speaker D: Oh, my goodness. A loaded question, but the cold notes version is, my name is Casa. I am the human design expert over at Mission Recruit. Um, so I work with the founder and the team there to bring human design into the workplace. And essentially, what human design is a personality assessment that helps you really understand how to be yourself, who you are, and when you are working as part of a team, how to optimize your team performance and experience. And I sort of fell into human design in my late 20s almost like, five years ago. And it, um, really helped me understand who I was and how, uh, I best operate in the world. And really, since then, I’ve just been learning as much as I can about it and testing it out. Before working with Patricia was a human resources manager, the director of human resources for a hospitality group. We worked with quite a large team there. I worked with about 25 managers, and I knew there human design. And we really worked well together, uh, to kind of establish a rapport and establish a type of culture that brought the best out of everybody. And so using that as, um, an experimenting with that and then using that as a template for how we can kind of scale it and bring it into larger teams and more businesses and help managers, uh, and leaders learn how to use it themselves.

Speaker C: That’s awesome. I love it. Before I got into what I’m doing now, I was a teacher, um, for 13 years, 14 years, and for multiple times, like in the summers or the beginning of the school year, when we would do staff development, we would do personality assessments. So, like, the Myers Briggs is a big one. We would, um, do somewhere it was like, are you a lion or are you a goat or something? And I remember thinking, I never felt like they really fit with who I felt like I was. And so I just kind, um, of wrote them off. I was like, just one more box. We got to check on this thing. And then lately, I’ve been seeing a lot of these, like, the human design I’ve gotten really into, like, the Enneagram, and they feel, um, like they’re a little bit more on point. And so I’m curious to know kind of why you feel like that the human design assessment is maybe a little bit better equipped to help us understand who we are versus some of the older assessments that we may have done in the past.

Speaker D: Yeah, I love this question. Unlike pretty much every personality assessment tool, you’re required to fill out a form with choices that lead to a specific outcome. Right. So with human design, the only thing that determines your chart is your birth information. So the day you were born, the year born, the time there. So it makes this tool very objective. And when you are completing a personality assessment or when you have, you’re probably already aware of the archetypes that exist. And so as you’re filling it out, you’re kind of thinking perhaps in your head, subconsciously, well, how am I going to answer this in a way that I want people to perceive me or that I want my employer to perceive me? Because the reality is we all wish we could be someone or something else, and that’s okay. But understanding your human design and learning how to work with your own unique blueprint, it offers you a roadmap as to who you are. And that really creates an opportunity, um, for you to radically accept yourself who you are in your highest truth, without anything else really distracting you from wanting to be or do or feel like something else or someone else.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think that’s an interesting aspect to this, because when you message me, you said, we want to do this assessment with you, to send us your information. And I was expecting to have to do some kind of assessment. So when you were like, we just need your birthday, your location, and all that stuff, I was like, oh, interesting. But then I got the results you sent me, and I was like, oh, this is pretty spot on. It’s kind of crazy how accurate it can really be. So, um, similar to other assessments, there are, like, different archetypes that you fall into. So what are the ones that are part of the human design aspect?

Speaker D: Sure. So there are five energy types, essentially, is what it’s called. And there are. So each one has a specific superpower and sort of works with sort of their energy field a lot differently. So within those five, there’s various other layers that kind of make it more unique. So the most sort of populist one is a generator. That’s what you are. So we’ve got generators, uh, at 36% of the population, manifesting generators that are at 30%, projectors, which are at 22%, manifestors at 10%, and reflectors at 1% of the population. I’ve only met one reflector and worked with one out of, um, the hundreds of charts that I’ve read. So they’re like super rare energy. Uh, type essentially plays a critical role in how we all interact with each other. So generators and manifesting generators, they have powerful and magnetic energy that allows them to work and produce projectors guide teams and people with ideas and concepts and awareness. Manifestos are creating and initiating action to bring to life new projects and concepts that as a group, we’ve maybe never seen or considered before. A lot of, um, famous leaders, presidents are all manifesto. They’ve got that initiating energy. And lastly, reflectors. They act as a mirror to society and teams and individuals. They act as reflections to show us how and what we’re doing as a collective, which is pretty Rad.

Speaker C: So I’m curious, um, why you think so? I was taking out the notes here. The reflectors being only, like, one person of the population. That’s pretty small amount. Why do you think that is? Like, what is it that’s unique and different about them that makes it such a small portion?

Speaker D: Amazing. So, as I said, your human design chart is calculated using your birth time. And what creates, um, a body graph is a combination of Eastern and Western philosophies. So astrology, the itching, the Kabbalah, the Chakra system, uh, and lastly, quantum physics. So, so many sort of extraordinary things have to happen in the universe in order to get a reflector or have a reflector be born. A reflector in the human body graph. So if you look at your assessment, I think on the third page of your PDF, you probably saw this, uh, body with a bunch of shapes. Um, so you’ve got a few that are colored in a reflector. All of them are going to be white.

Speaker UNK: Okay?

Speaker D: In order for that to happen, the planets have to be in a specific arrangement, which is pretty, um, rare on an annual basis to happen or for that to happen. And so when all of the centers are clear, that means that there is energy that really isn’t able to flow, which is totally okay. And instead, what ends up happening is that person becomes essentially a very highly sensitive person to their environment. So they kind of absorb and see and then reflect out what it is that they’re experiencing. Whereas what’s different between a reflector and someone like you, who’s a generator is you’ve got some consistent, um, access to energy just based off of your chart itself. And so that is actually what you’re sharing out in the world and what you’re radiating and emanating. That’s your aura field. It’s a big, huge, beautiful aura that’s very juicy. And people are attracted to your vibe and attracted to, especially when you’re lit up and when you’re excited about certain things. People are going, um, to kind of be magnetized towards you.

Speaker C: It’s so interesting. Okay, so I want to go through kind of this blueprint that you sent.

Speaker D: Sure.

Speaker C: And I know visually, I’ll share some of this over on Instagram when this episode goes live. But listening to this, you won’t be able to see the visual part of this. But I do want to kind of talk through the blueprint that you sent. So going through, I see, um, that there is type, strategy, authority, and then leadership, archetype. So are those kind of the four things that it breaks down into? Okay, so like you said, my type was generator. And so explain a little, um, bit more about you kind of did a little bit what the generator is, but it’s someone who can create their own energy, correct?

Speaker D: Yeah. You’ve got consistent access to energy. You have the ability to, um, amplify that energy into the world. And specifically, you’re able to do that or you do that really easily when you’re doing something that you love. So some human design, uh, experts will say the generator is kind of like the Energizer Bunny of the human design system. Like, you have that ability to go, go. And you don’t really necessarily run out of battery. The key here is, um, to really discern ensuring that you’re doing something that you love. You have the energy to do everything. But that’s not necessarily the best thing for you. Because if you’re doing things that you don’t really love, you may be on a path, um, to burnout, or a path towards you will be on a path to burnout because you’re suddenly going to wake up one day and be like, why am I doing these ten things? I only really want to do too. And I’ve committed to these other things that I have to do. And in society, that kind of may look bad, quote, unquote. And you don’t want to do that until there’s this pressure to keep on going until you can find a way out. So you’re the person on your team that has that continual energy to get past some projects in. But as I said, you really just want to make sure that you are following your strategy and your authority, which is your decision making system, to ensure that you’re committing to things that really do resonate deeply with you so that you do have the energy and the excitement to carry it through to the end.

Speaker C: When you’re explaining it, that makes such sense, like I do. And that’s how I know when the whole covet hit and I got sick. And now, like, my energy level drops during the day. And that’s not normal for me because I’m so used to, like you said, just kind of go, go. But I also can see how, like, what you’re saying about the energy coming through when it’s something that I really am connected to, something that I enjoy doing because I do as a people pleaser tend to over commit to things. And then I find myself in these situations where I’m like, I don’t feel connected to this, I don’t feel excited about this. And that’s when the energy kind of drops off. Um, surprisingly accurate, because I will say, going into I was a little skeptical, just like I am of all things. I was skeptical of the Myers Briggs of the Enneagram, of all these other even like the horoscope type stuff. All of that is I’m very skeptical of until I start to see how it does kind of really match who I am at my core. And so, um, going through these results, I was like, oh, this is definitely like where it says you are fully in your element and flow. You bring energizing passion. And it’s this feeling of like, when I get into this space, like I was doing an interview on a podcast the other day and we were talking about business and being a mom and it’s like these things flow through me. This sounds very Woohoo, I know, but it’s like I can feel like this energy flowing through me and it’s almost like it’s not even me speaking the words. It’s just coming out of me in a way. And sometimes I listen back and I’m like, wow, that sounded really good. Where did that come from? And it kind of makes sense what you’re saying. That because of my human design, I’m able to generate this energy around things that I’m really passionate about and excited about. So that’s very interesting. One of the things on here that I thought, um, was interesting on my results was the gut instinct part. So it talks in here about being in tune with sort of your gut instincts. Can you talk a little bit more about that for sure?

Speaker D: So part of understanding, um, your human design is understanding your authority, which is the decision making system. So there is sort of like, I don’t want to say the word structure, but that’s the only one that’s coming to my head right now. There’s kind of a structure and a flow of how it is that you engage with life. So as a generator, your strategy, so how you engage with the world is to wait to respond. So, again, this feels very counterintuitive to kind of the way that we believe society is run because we’re kind of taught, um, to think and do and initiate. If you want something, you have to go for it. Whereas in human design, there are some types where that’s actually not necessarily in their best interests, because perhaps when you’re initiating, you’re initiating things that aren’t necessarily, quote, unquote, meant for you. So in the generator space, it’s really like if you are continuing to do things that you love, like you’re going to magnetize those opportunities towards you because you’ve got enough space. You’re literally creating enough space within your energy field and your life to allow things to come to you. And that’s when you notice, okay, you’ve got, like, let’s say this opportunity to start a podcast or you’ve got an idea to start a podcast. You’re not really sure where to go or how to do that. You can either start it or there’s going to be all these cues from the universe that are really going to give you that push to make it happen. And so once you’ve got an idea, once, um, you kind of see that interaction with the universe, you have an opportunity to basically respond, um, to that with a feeling from your gut. There are different types of authorities, and that doesn’t necessarily, um, speak to a specific type. So each type has two or three different ways that they make decisions, and some are the same. Like, for example, a manifesting generator and generator. Both can be a sacral authority, but a projector doesn’t.

Speaker C: That’s me a sacral authority.

Speaker D: A sacral authority. So your decision making is really by listening to your gut and by following what that gut feeling and that gut instinct says to you. And it comes in the form of either a hell yes or a no, right? My husband has a safe authority, and sometimes I’m like, Is it a yes or no? He’s like, I don’t know. Okay, well, how does it feel in your body? Does it feel like something that’s expansive? Does it feel like something that really. I feel really good about that? Or is it something that’s kind of restricting and contracting in your body too? That’s another way that I kind of like to look, um, at it. And, uh, if you have generators, uh, in your family, especially children who may have a sacral authority, you’re going to see that sort of manifest itself in grunting. So, like, little kids just like, yeah, I do want that, mom. I do want that, dad. Whereas it might be like, no, right? And that is literally their human design, speaking for them subconsciously. So being able to work with your sacral means that you’ve got to be in tune with your body and in tune with sort of your higher mind. You’re not necessarily rationalizing it with your brain. It’s something that you have to kind of sink in a little bit deeper, uh, and be able to really feel, um, that feeling from deep within your body.

Speaker C: It doesn’t actually use words because I’ve always said I am a very emotionally, I guess I’m an emotional decision maker, whereas my husband is more of a rational decision maker. And so when we’ve had to make certain decisions in our life, whether it’s about careers or family or this or that, I have exactly what you’re saying. Like, I kind of have this instinct of like, it’s either a yes or a no, whereas he needs it to be like, okay, but let’s look at it on paper and let’s talk it out and let’s pros and cons and all those kinds of things. And so it does make sense that when I have listened to what my gut has said, when I’ve listened to that yes or no feeling, that it tends to work out. It’s when I go against that. But I’m like, okay, it feels like a no, but I want it to be a yes. So I’m going to go do it anyway. Then it kind of ends up being a flop. So it’s interesting to knowing, like when you have to listen to that voice inside saying one thing or the other, because it’s there for a reason for sure.

Speaker D: And it gets all sort of lessons. I mean, human design is also known as the human design experiment. It’s not meant to be dogmatic. And so for the people who are listening to this and kind of skeptic, I invite you to just try, see what happens when that sacral feeling inside of you saying no, and you go on and do it anyway. How do you feel about that the next day, a week later, a month later? Did you even finish? Did you even carry through? And then what happens, uh, when you do follow your bliss, when you do get that sacral? Yes. And you do go for it and all the other opportunities that come out of it and all the other beautiful things that come out of it as well, nothing is good or bad. It’s not that binary again, it will all lead you to wherever it is, um, that you’re meant to be. Just some is going to have resistance and some is going to be a little bit. You’re going to have more ease with that and more flow.

Speaker C: Yeah. So you talked about how you do this for companies and groups that work together. So I want to talk about a couple of things here. And one is a lot of people listening to this podcast work as solope premiers, because you talk a lot about knowing this, how it relates as far as working with a team. But how does knowing your human design and having this information help you if maybe you’re not working with a team, you’re just you in your business. Obviously, you’re not just you and your whole life, that’s part of it. But how does this relate as far as someone who’s like, well, it’s just me doing this.

Speaker D: I would say the most useful thing as an entrepreneur is really just being like, what’s next? What do I do next? How do I get the most out of X? When do I know when you’re engaging maybe in partnership? Whether that partnership is right or best for you and your business attuning to your strategy and your authority in your human design is going to make a world of a difference for how you engage with your business. So as a generator, you have the ability to go out and create and amplify that energy. But some types are non energy beings. For example, a projector is a non energy being. So they don’t have access to that sacral energy that you have access to. And so the way that they run their business is going to be very different from how you’re going to be running your business. And so if they understand their type, their authority and their strategy, they’re maybe going to feel less pressure to maybe run a business the way that you’re running your business, because that doesn’t really align for them. They are a little bit more prone to burnout. And for example, um, the strategy of a projector is to wait for the invitation. So a projector almost needs to be invited into something as opposed to waiting to respond or initiating, like a manifesto. Um, another type of authority that exists within human design is called the emotional authority that’s mine. I’m an emotional authority. And so for me, um, that means that I don’t make decisions in the moment like you. The idea is, um, to ride your emotional wave. And so if I make a decision when I’m in an emotional high, um, I may wake up the next day and be like, Why did I do that? Uh, I really don’t want to do that. And again, now I’ve over committed. Or now I’ve committed to something I don’t really want to do. And I’m going to now look flaky by saying no or blah, blah, blah. Yeah. That sort of mental gymnastics that you end up playing in your head to try and justify to that. So if you as a business owner or just as solopreneur as you said, just understand how your body works, um, and how you best engage with the world to get the maximum out of yourself, that’s going to make a world of a difference. And lastly, to something that we haven’t talked about yet is understanding your profile or your leadership archetype. And the way that I look at that is really like, how do other people see you? So it’s maybe not necessarily something that’s super conscious to who you are as a human being, but that’s how other people perceive and look at you. And there’s twelve different types of profiles. So your profile is 63 or what. I know it as the responsible adventurer. Um, and life is literally like your playground. You have likely spent at least the first 30, 35 years of your life experimenting, trial and error, lots of adventures, and really just trying to gather as much wisdom as you could through your own personal experiences and then sort of reflecting on that. And now you’re in this other part of your life now, or this other phase of your life now where now you’re sharing that wisdom, which is very much exactly what you’re kind of doing. Like, I took a look at your website. I took a look at your Instagram and your podcast. It’s really just an accumulation of all of your experiences. And now you’re sharing that with your audience and you’re sharing that with the world.

Speaker C: It makes me so happy to hear things like that, because I’m like, because we get into, uh, these mindsets of, am I on the right path? Am I doing what I’m supposed to be, uh, doing? But when you come in, you say, no. You’ve spent all this part of your life gathering knowledge, information and having adventures and going out and experimenting and failing and succeeding and all the things. And now you’re using that knowledge to help others. That’s exactly what I’m doing with my life, and that’s what I want to do with my life. And that’s what feels the best right now. But just to have kind of that confirmation, like, even just having somebody else or the human design aspect or even someone you’re talking to say that back to you. That’s what I feel like. A lot of this is information. It’s really interesting to hear and learn about who we are and how we work. But sometimes it’s also helpful just to kind of get confirmation of what you might have already known about yourself, to be like, okay, this really is because this is who I’m meant to be.

Speaker D: Oh, my goodness. It’s a system of radical self acceptance. I mean, if you think about. I know for me because I have a six in my profile, too. And that really is like the first 30 years, just you’re experimenting, and it doesn’t make any sense. It’s a very nonlinear experience. And so, again, thinking about society’s conditioning and sort of what’s happening, people probably around you, parents, family, are like, what are you doing? Like, why are you? I don’t understand. It’s not traditional. Right? And you’re just like, I’m fine, I’m good. Uh, I’m genuinely happy with what it is that I’m doing, and it’ll all make sense eventually. I’m not going to focus on that right now. I’m just going to continue to do what it is that’s exciting me, because I know that I will get there when I need to get there.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. I love that.

Speaker D: Okay.

Speaker E: So I love this idea.

Speaker C: Um, of figuring out who we are and, uh, how we work, how we best accomplish things. So let’s say we talked about how it applies, um, as far as someone who’s maybe a solopreneur. But let’s say you are looking to build a team, whether that is just like hiring, um, a VA or a social media manager, or you want to bring somebody in to help you run a launch or whatever. How can we utilize human design when we’re looking at building that team? Because I think that’s a fear that a lot of us have is like, we’re handing over part of our business to somebody. So how do we know that we’re handing it over to someone that’s going to really get us and get what we do?

Speaker D: Amazing. I think you can use human design to understand the other human design types, so you know how you best operate. Now, you can use human design to understand how someone else best operates and optimize your team or optimize what your expectations are for them in a way. So you’re going to tailor it in a more unique way. So when I was a manager, I had a team of ten underneath me and there were a mix of manifests and projectors and generators and manifesting generators. And so the way that I worked with each of them was a little bit different. I knew some were able to make decisions in the moment like you being sacral. And some needed time to go through their emotional wave and process. And so I would design our meetings as an example, as a way to get the best out of them. So some needed to see the agenda a day or two before the meeting so they could prepare and know what they wanted to say. Some wouldn’t look at it until we were in the meeting. And that was okay. Basically what that did was that took away the judgment from me being like, well, they should be looking at this and preparing, but some people really just don’t need that. And so I had to really understand who they were in order to get that judgment out of it and really understand that, no, they’re actually going to offer me their best work in the moment, whereas some are going to offer me their best work the next day. Um, and so as their manager, I had to realign my own expectations to be like, okay, if this is what our goal is as a company, or if this is what my, um, goal is as an entrepreneur, how do I break it down in a way that’s going to allow everyone who I’m working with to achieve that goal? Even if they’re all going to go about it in a different way, more or less to some degree, I still need to make sure that I’m at the end as a founder. Getting there. And so how am I going to kind, uh, of break it down? At Mission, recruit offer leaders, especially manager teams and entrepreneurs. We have a workshop that helps them understand their, um, own human design and how they all work with each other and how they’re motivated and how went and recognized when someone’s off track.

Speaker C: Yeah. Because that was going to be one of my next questions was, if you’re looking at this, do you need to have a pretty good understanding of all the human design aspects so that you can kind of see what works best? Or is it just good to know kind of what they are so that you know how best to work with them?

Speaker D: You don’t need to know. It super in depth if you’re keen on it. Amazing. But as long as you, again, understand their type and what their type is and, uh, how they’re as a projector that’s someone who’s going to be able to guide and see. Whereas a generator, someone who’s going to be able to do maximum output for you. And a manifesto. If you have like a project manager or someone who is in, let’s say, like business development or a creative director, a manifesto, uh, is someone who’s going to just initiate all day long and throw ideas into your sphere that you may not have thought about. And so if you recognize that that’s what their talents are to offer you again. And that’s not necessarily, like, 100%. Like, um, everyone is still going to be able to offer different talents in some ways, and you understand as their type, what motivates them, um, primarily and how they’re off track. So there’s, like, literally keywords. So for a generator, you’re off track when you’re frustrated. So if you have a team saying, like, I’m frustrated, I’m frustrated, you’re like, okay, let’s talk about that. Or if you have a projector who’s bitter and you can normally tell you’re like, oh, God, that person is so bitter. Like, what has happened? Probably you can just be like, hey, what’s going on? Let’s talk about, um, it right. Creating that environment of psychological safety where you can be like, okay, I noticed that you’re disappointed. I noticed that you’re frustrated. I noticed that you’re angry. Let’s talk about that and figure out a way to get you back on track so that you’re feeling satisfied. If you’re a generator or at peace, if you’re a manifesto or you’re feeling successful in the work that you’re doing, if you’re a projector, that’s amazing.

Speaker C: I love it.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: Because, I mean, it’s not just about, like, knowing yourself, but it’s knowing, like, if you’re managing a team. Again, like I say team. I think a lot of people think of a team as like, oh, well, I have people who come into an office every day, but it can be, like I said, you have a virtual assistant that works with you, or you’ve hired a social media. Like, just knowing those things and having them know kind of how you work and communicating those things, I think, is really, really beneficial. And just listening to this is great for parenting, too, because if, um, you can understand your kids a little better, we all want to understand our kids better. Especially my oldest one, getting into that preteen phase. And I’m like, I don’t understand the words coming out of your mouth. Like, I need to figure you out better. So I think just in general, having an understanding of who people are makes us better. Parents, wives, friends, coworkers leaders, all the things.

Speaker D: Yeah. Oh, this is incredible. For families as well. That’s its own team, if you think about it.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Um, and in that team, no one’s really the boss. You have to work together sort of synergistically in, um, order for everyone to be happy. And children, kids, teenagers. I think of myself, um, as a teenager, I didn’t know how to articulate my feelings well. And again, I modeled my behavior, um, after my parents, and that didn’t really align for me. And so then I took most of my 20s to figure out what that meant. Out of life, how do I make decisions? And so as a kid, you can kind of understand how you best operate. You’re kind of going into adulthood, um, without any of that conditioning that you’d, um, then have to work out somehow.

Speaker C: Yeah. Well, I think this makes it easy, too, because it’s not like you aren’t asking your kids to take an assessment where they have to answer questions they don’t really know how to answer. It’s all based on things that are not asking them to do something in response to that. This is all so fascinating. So tell everybody, because if someone is listening to this and they’re like, I need to know more about this, where can they go to get their own assessment? How can they get more information about this? What can they do?

Speaker D: Amazing. So we offer PDF assessments on the Mission Recruit website, as well as, um, one on one readings. So you can head over to Missionrecoats.com, either purchase the assessment or book with me there. And we are offering your listeners or the listeners today of the podcast a 20% discount using the code GMB. Um, 20. And so go ahead. Uh, there and. Yeah, be so excited to create an assessment for you or read your chart.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think that’s awesome. And I will have that link and the discount code in the show notes to follow, um, or to go grab. But thank you so much for coming on and talking about this. It’s so fascinating. I love learning something new. A lot of times I’m in the conversation with people and sharing my own thoughts, and this was really fun to kind of get to be the student and get to learn how this is working and how it applies to me with my own assessment. So thank you so much for that. How can people follow you on social media or get in touch with you if they want to chat with you? Again, I know you mentioned the website, but you have social media links as well.

Speaker D: Yeah. Mission Recruit is our Instagram Instagram as well. So you can find us on, uh, Instagram there. Perfect.

Speaker C: Uh, well, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it. I know everybody listening probably learned a ton, and I can’t wait to see what their human design assessment comes out of. So thank you, um, again, for being here. I really appreciate it.

Speaker D: It was my pleasure. It’s such a blast.

So today we’re going to kind of battle it out between websites and social media. I know this is when you’re starting a business. One of the things you kind of think about is what do I really need for my business? What are the things that are going to help me get off the ground quickly and efficiently without having to invest a lot of time or money into different programs and platforms? And there’s so many options out there. So today we’re going to kind of look at what comes first. Um, the chicken. I was going to say it’s not the chicken or the egg. • • You’re in my head. Get out of my head. • • • • It is social media or is it a website? So let’s just dive right in. I know, Katie, you have some pretty strong thoughts on this, so I’ll let you go first, and then I’ll come in and give you my thoughts.

Speaker B

Well, I’m going to give you guys a quick story. When I first started my business, • • it was because I was laid off from my job and I did not know what the next step would be. I had no idea. I thought I was going to get another corporate job doing marketing. Social media would be one of the side jobs that was going to be part of my tasks. But until I found that next job, • I was just going to see what would happen with my passion for social media. Could I actually make a business doing just social media? And so the very first thing I did, I had a three year old well, I guess two and a half year old at the time. I was pregnant with my second daughter, and it was 930 at night. And I said, okay, the very first thing I need to do is make a website. • • And • • this is the reason why I’m going to tell you guys I made a mistake. I should have sat down and claimed my domain. Sure. • • But I should have claimed all of my social media handles and found my spot on social media because social media, when used the right way when you grab your handles when you optimize your bio. It can really be that many website and • • • • Facebook is one of the most indexed websites from Google. So if I had started • with my social media accounts, writing the right type of captions, posting the right type of content that my ideal client customer was searching, I probably would have gotten more clients than by spending all those nights after my two year old went to bed creating and drafting and writing my own website. So I am team social media. • Kendra, what say you?

Speaker A

So I think all the things you just said are very important and valid and I hear you when I see you. • • I’m going to do my therapy voice. No, I think social media is definitely important and I know for me personally, I did the exact opposite. I did what you did too, but it worked well for me. I jumped right into a website first I grabbed my domain. I actually had a couple of domains that were variations of my business name. They all pointed back to my website, so I grabbed those first. I was fortunate that I didn’t have to worry about social media handles because my business name was kind of unique enough. But for me, • • I’m kind of team website because the website, I mean for my photography business, that is how • • 75% of my people find me is through my website, through a Google search, through SEO. • • There’s a lot of factors that go into being discovered online and through searching things like that. But I also will put like a little asterisk there and say, I think a lot of it depends on the type of business you have. It’s very different between and I kind of get to see both worlds. It’s very different between my locally based photography business that relies a lot on moms going on to Google and searching for a high school senior photographer for their daughter or when I was doing weddings, a bride searching for wedding photographer versus like this more global • • brand with my coaching business and the growth in the business brand where people aren’t just necessarily going in and searching for business coach. And if they are, it’s a much larger pool that I’m trying to compete with. So having the SEO and the website and things like that, it’s very different based on the type of business that you have. But I found that for me having a website as a Homebase where I could house all the contact information and create like blog posts, that was huge for me was having blog content that was a little bit longer format. Whereas with social media you have either limits on your text accounts, character accounts, • you’re uh, not going to write out a whole blog post on Instagram feed or post and have somebody actually read it. So there’s a lot of variations and I think there’s definitely pros and cons to both that. We’ll dive into, • • but • I’m going to go team website for this one. So we’re a, uh, team divided here. But that’s okay. I think having both perspectives is going to be really beneficial.

Speaker B

Well, and this is the thing. I know that there’s so many entrepreneurs who are just getting started • • or they’re thinking, okay, • • how do I get started? What is the very first thing that I should do? And • if someone had said this to me, if I had a mentor that said, hey, Katie, I think that you should do this first, I would have done things differently. I’m not shy to say that I made some big mistakes. I don’t think that doing the website first is a major mistake. But tied along with only doing the website, I didn’t even grab my social media handles. I didn’t even start posting on social media until • • • • • • • • • • the end of 2019. And after being in business for two full years. So that’s time that I lost on building my community around my business and my brand, because I made the mistake that so many small business owners make. I didn’t have time for my own business. I didn’t have time for it. I was so focused on helping my clients and my customers grow their businesses and brands, I put myself on the back burner. Oh, I’ll get to it someday in two years by where I missed out on that opportunity to really dive in and focus on growing my business and my brand on social media. Once I did, things changed.

Speaker A

Yeah. And I think one thing I want to add to that, too, is on the flip side of that, I see this happen a lot is I will have people who I see on posting in social media groups or clients that I’ve worked with. And I’ll say, okay, what have you been doing this week to work on your business? And they’ll be like, oh, well, I went and I updated the photos on my website, and I’ve been working on a couple of blog posts, • • or I’ve been creating one or two posts on Instagram a week. I think that it’s easy to for us to say • • I’m going to do things like build a website. Is that really • • the best use of your time, though? I guess • • • my point I’m going to get back to my point in a minute of website being good, too. But I think that you need to also say, okay, am I putting energy and effort into something in my business that’s not really helping me grow, helping me get out there and find clients and reach clients because I’m scared to do other things? Or is it because that’s how it was for me? I was like, oh, well, I’m quote, unquote working on my business • • • by going in and updating my website, but • • • • • it wasn’t really moving my business forward. Like, those updates. • • • Yeah. Those updates weren’t going to make a difference between whether the client a booked me or not, but it was just my way of kind of feeling like I was doing something when I wasn’t really doing something, if that makes sense.

Speaker B

Yeah. No, it really does, because you don’t realize how much time you end up spending on these tasks that are just simple updates. But really, it ends up being half an hour. And what could you have done productively in that half an hour? No, it makes perfect sense. I think that it’s a wormhole, a rabbit hole that we can end up falling into very easily where you think that you’re working on your business. And it’s not to say don’t pay attention to your website and making updates to it, especially if you haven’t updated your website since 1994. But I mean, there are certain things that are going to move the needle and do need to happen, whereas maybe updating the pictures can be put to the back burner. Now, as I said at the beginning, I am team social media. And it’s not just because I am a social media strategist. But • hear me out. We’re just going to stick with Instagram because if I go down the rabbit hole of all the different social media platforms.

Speaker A

We don’t have all day.

Speaker B

Yes, I know we don’t have all day, but this is just a 30 minutes podcast. So • • I think that if you decided to start, hey, I’m going to start • Next Step Social, or I’m going to start my crocheted quilt for baby dolls company, and it’s going to be my main business. I don’t know why I chose them, but that is I love it. I don’t even know how to crochet.

Speaker A

But anyway, call it Crochet Me Baby. There you go. I already have a business name ready to go for you. This is what I bring to the table. • • •

Speaker B

Okay, so I decided to launch the Instagram page Crochet Me Baby, and I can use Instagram as that mini website. There’s so many different ways that you can show up and build a community and build an audience on Instagram that I think that it can act as your website • • until you get your full blown website launched. Because there’s a lot of different website providers out there that you can use. Which one is the right one? There’s a lot of research that goes into it. So if you decide to just start with Instagram, you can show up in the feed posting pictures of your crocheted, uh, blankets for baby dolls. You can show up in reels showcasing you crocheting the blankets for baby dolls you can show up in IG lives talking about some of the different craft shows that you are going to be going to or some of the different orders that you’re working on. All of these different ways to show up in front of your audience, even if you haven’t even opened your doors yet. It’s going to build people that want to see what’s coming next, and it acts as your sales page. You can even set up a shop through Instagram now. It acts as your sales page. It can act as your behind the scenes getting to know you. I think that if you decide to go all in on social media, when you’re first getting started and you do it the right way, when you have your website done, you’re going to have people ready to buy from you. Okay.

Speaker A

So staying on the topic of social media, I do want to throw out a few questions for you here, because if I’m somebody who is brand new starting a business, Instagram • • can feel very overwhelming. There’s so much to it. I feel like there’s a lot you have to learn. And not to say that everybody starts from ground zero and builds up, but I think that • • • you have to have some skill and knowledge when it comes to how to effectively create a social media. Following an account that is productive and gets you sales and gets you followers and clients and builds connections. So what are the knowledge skills? What’s the prerequisites that someone needs to go into Instagram knowing how to do in order to be effective on social media, if that’s where they decide to kind of build their business.

Speaker B

So if they’ve decided to build their business on just Instagram, I think that you need to have some understanding and a strategy going into it, because one of the things that we talk about a lot, Kendra offline and in our Instagram posts are the different content pillars. How are you going to showcase what it is that you offer? And not everyone really has that understanding when they get started. So, I mean, obviously, signing up to work with a coach or a strategist will definitely • • • • • • • help you with that decision and with figuring out what you should be posting and how to build that audience. But I think that when you’re first getting started, it’s realizing that you are the brand. Uh, and nobody knows your logo yet. Nike didn’t become Nike overnight. It took them a while to get there. We all know the swoosh now. So if you are not Nike and you don’t have that brand and you’re I already forgot the name of our business. The Crochet baby.

Speaker A

There you go.

Speaker B

Nobody knows that logo yet. You have to be willing to show up as your face, with your face as your brand on these different platforms to give people that know, like and trust factor, they’re going to want to support you because they feel like they know you. I come back to this. My daughter, she is a Girl Scout, and I had her make a little video for it was going to just go to my mom and my dad, and I was going to have them share the video with their friends. She did really good at it. And so I posted it on my Facebook timeline. And it was just a 92nd video of her talking about the Girl Scout cookies. I had people that I haven’t talked to in years reach out to me and say, I will buy cookies from her. And it’s because she showed up and she looked cute and she was going through all the cookies and they had somebody to support. Now, I just would have written, hey, • • • my daughter is selling Girl Scout cookies. Come buy them from her. Let me know if you want any. I might have gotten half, maybe even a third of the people responding because they didn’t see her love of being a Girl Scout. They didn’t see how she was excited to be a part of this new community and to sell cookies for the first time. So when people can see that they’re going to want to support you. And I think that it’s the same with the business owner. I’m not saying to show up and be like, hey, everybody, I’m selling crocheted baby blankets now, Hooray and have the money start flowing in. But people will start seeing more and more and more of you. And they’re like, they’re done. Oh, I love that blanket. Oh, look at this one that she did. Oh, my nephew’s going to be having a baby soon. I want to get one of your blankets for him. And I can tell them I follow you on Instagram. I mean, that’s what I’m talking about.

Speaker A

Yeah. It’s hard for me to not jump in and be like, yeah, and this and this and this, because I agree with everything you’re saying. However, I also think that for some people, social media can be a barrier that they have, not that there’s a huge barrier to entry. Obviously, it’s free. You don’t have to pay for it. Whereas with websites, you usually are having a cost that comes with it. But it is very intimidating. And if it’s not done • well or not done, I don’t even say correctly. But if it’s not done in a way that, like you said, connects you to the people, then you could be spending a lot of time and energy on something that’s not going to move the needle very quickly. There’s definitely a flip side to every coin there is.

Speaker B

So tell me your flip side to why I should not focus on social media, which is still getting indexed by Google. It’s still searchable. It still gives you that social proof. It still can help you build your community of people who are ready to buy from you when that website is done. Tell me why I should do my website first.

Speaker A

Well, I think a lot of it for me was about • having • • something that felt like a Homebase for all of my information. Because if you go on to social media, you’re kind of seeing little bits and pieces of somebody’s business. I mean, yes, they can go to your feed, they can scroll through • again, you have one link in your Instagram bio. Where does that link go? Where are you sending people to? Because if you have an email list. Okay, well, okay, send it to an email list. I’ll give you that. I am an advocate for that.

Speaker B

But I just wanted to. • • • • • • • • • • •

Speaker A

Well, you know how to get to me. • • • • • But I think that they have that link there. And if I’m going to, let’s say, crochet me baby, if I find you on Instagram and I’m like, oh, my girls baby dolls be crocheted blankets for their birthdays, let me see what you have. And I go to the link in your bio because your content is fine. I see the blankets, but it’s harder for me to figure out how to buy one. Do I have to message you directly? I just feel like it’s a little more cumbersome. There’s a lot more steps, and we know that the idea of a confused mind doesn’t buy. And so the less • • difficult you can make it for your clients, the better. So if you have a website, because websites were way around longer, way longer than social media, it’s kind of like just something that everyone is asked, like, what’s your website? Where do I go? And I guess a lot of it also depends on your demographics of who you’re targeting. But I think a lot of people are going to be looking for • • a website. They’re going to be asking like, okay, where do you live on the internet? Social media is great. But again, we don’t own those platforms. What happens if Instagram goes down again? What happens if social media? What if your account gets shut down? Just like I talk about in the email list, having a website that you can direct people to, they can then go find you if they’re like, oh, her Instagram is gone. But I really wanted to buy this baby blanket. They still know where to go to find that baby blanket or whatever you’re offering. • • • • • • • • I heard it here first, folks.

Speaker B

Crocheted baby happens on the business.

Speaker A

So we need to grab that handle. • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •

Speaker B

I agree. Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg, man, you own my followers on Instagram and Facebook. Bill Gates, you on my LinkedIn, and Rohan and Paul, you own all my people on Clubhouse. So that is true. It’s true. We don’t own that community.

Speaker A

Yeah, • • • I’m not saying this is not. I know we said versus, but it all has to work together. And I think that having a website is just this foundational piece. It gives you a little bit of validity. So people are like, oh, okay, she’s not just someone who popped up on Instagram. And is it legit? Like, if I’m going to send you money to buy this baby blanket that costs $150?

Speaker B

Because, my God, these are some expensive stuff.

Speaker A

Hey, it’s handmade with lots of love, Katie. • • • • • • • • • • • • •

Speaker B

I agree. No, • • 100% agree. I have been. I can’t think of a good word. Snaked. I don’t know. • • • Yeah, I’ve been duped on Facebook. There’s been plenty of things where I’m like, perfect example. We were going to get some as we, um, have two little girls, and they love kicking the back of the car. Of the seats in the car.

Speaker UNK

Yes. • • •

Speaker B

I wanted to get some nice seat covers for my husband’s car whenever we were going up to the mountains because there was snow and mud and it was a mess. And so I wanted to get them some nice seat covers. But they were expensive. And Facebook, • • they knew I was searching for some seat covers. So what pops up in my feed but some car seatback covers, I saw them. I was like, these look legit. They’re leather. Look at all the spots that they can put their books and their water bottles, their leather, $35 for one, or if you order two, it’s for a Penny. So I was like, okay, well, 35 one, I’ll get two of them. That’s a steal. What shows up four months later not joking was felt the felt seatback covers that literally I could rip with my hands. • This was not what I mhm ordered. And who did I have to deal with? I had to deal with somebody that didn’t speak any English. That was a factory out of China. And I got duped. I didn’t do my research. I trusted their Facebook page, which, by the way, had zero posts. But they did have reviews. • • • • •

Speaker A

They were probably all fake. Exactly. • • •

Speaker B

And this is one of the things you can do that you can fake your pages, you can fake your reviews, you can fake your followers. But I went to their page, I was like, oh, they just haven’t posted. They probably just do ads. They look real. They have plenty of reviews. And I got duped. So I definitely feel like, yeah, you’re kind of right, Kendra.

Speaker A

Yeah, well, I mean, not to say that you can’t have a fake website, too, because there are things I’ve come across that too. The same exact thing almost. You’re like, okay, I’m looking for this thing. You go on Facebook, you see an ad, you click on it, it takes you to a website somewhere. It all looks legit • • • this day and age. Unfortunately, that’s just the case. You’re going to have those people who are out there scamming you. But I do think that as a small business, one way that you can kind of say to your followers, like, hey, I am legit is that you don’t just have just an Instagram account or just a Facebook page. You need to have more than that in order for people to say like, okay, this is somebody who has put in the time and energy to create a business. You have a URL, you have a great looking website. You have social proof with social media. • • All these things kind of go in together. But I do think when it comes to websites too, it’s not as simple as just saying, okay, I’m going to go create a website. And I’m curious, when you’ve created your first website, do you remember what platform you used?

Speaker B

It was Squarespace.

Speaker A

Okay. And what was your experience with Squarespace?

Speaker B

So I use Squarespace because I didn’t really have a ton of training on creating a website. It was very easy to drag and drop it. I could buy my URL directly through the Squarespace website, and it made things really easy to use templates. A year later, I went and got certified with WordPress creation. So I know how to build and maintain an entire WordPress site. Now. It’s great just to know how to do it. I don’t do any website building, just for the record, but I wanted to know how to do it. But I still have my next step. Socialcommunications.com is still on Squarespace, just because the idea of transferring everything over to WordPress is extremely daunting.

Speaker A

Okay, so this is my. • I will give you my kind of what you should do if you’re thinking • • maybe you already have your social set up and now you’re ready for a website or you’re like, well, no, I really want to build that good, solid foundation of a website. Not all website platforms are created equal. It’s kind of like when I talk about email marketing platforms, you have, like, your mail chimps of the world, which are they’re cheap, they’re easy. Everybody knows to go to them. Everybody thinks that where they should go first. But once you start getting into it, you realize pretty quickly this is not the best fit for me long term. And then you have your high end • active campaign entrepreneur that cost more, but they have all the bells and whistles. They may not be for the • starting up email marketing person. • Websites are the same way. The one that I see a lot of people talking, um, about is Wix, because it is, I believe it’s free completely. I think, or maybe there’s like a small fee, uh, but it’s fairly cost effective. And they tout themselves as being like, quick and easy. It’s easy for beginners. Here’s the problem that I have, um, with Wix, because especially, I know a lot of photographers that have used Wix. One, you have very limited control over the design of your website. So if you are someone who visually wants a really nice website, it’s not going to work for you. And two, you don’t have SEO control. So this is a big thing. And for anyone who is not familiar, SEO is search engine optimization. So it is how easily are you able to be discovered if somebody goes into Google and searches for a keyword? If someone says, I’m looking for a social media manager in Denver, Colorado, how easily will Katie’s company come up? And so that’s SEO. And if you don’t have control of your SEO settings and features. It’s going to be really hard for them to find you because your website lives on their platform. So unless somebody is specifically searching for your website name, you’re probably not going to come up necessarily. So Square Space is actually, I don’t think it’s a terrible one. You do have more control over your SEO features. It’s kind of like what I would say the next step up. You hear it talked a lot about, • • I know a lot of podcasts. I listen, um, to • • • Squarespace are sponsors of their podcast. They use them for their websites. It’s a good, it is easy to use drag and drop. • • • • • I’ve used WordPress and I love WordPress. It’s the most robust website platform. You have complete control of almost everything you do, uh, on there. However, it is not something that you can just like log in at night by yourself when your two and a half year old is on the bed. And yes, no, it requires a lot more knowledge, skill • you have to have. A lot of times you pair it with like a Profoto or I use Show it, which is another platform that I really love. It gives you kind of one of those in between where it gives you the SEO functionality, but you also have a lot of super easy drag and drop. I actually have helped a couple people design their show at sites and it’s kind of fun for me to be on the creative end. But • the big thing is when you are starting out your website, • • • if you know that you have a pretty big vision of what you want your site to be and it’s not just a simple information based, you probably need to have somebody help you do it. Because this is one of those areas where • • • • • • • • if you really want it to be done well and you want it to look a certain way, you’re going to spend so much time and energy and frustration trying to get it done yourself when you could hire somebody else to do it for you and it’s done. Now, I know that’s an investment • you’re including a cost there, but it’s worth it if that’s where you feel like you’re going to get the best return on your investment there. I will say one more thing is domains. Go get your domains. Like, if you have a business name like Katie and I have just discovered, trying to get a domain for our business, uh, besties brand that we’re building here, it’s not always going to be available the way you want it. So if you have a business company, just like Katie was saying with grabbing those Instagram handles, those social media handles, if you are like, okay, I know I’m going to want to build this website. I want it to have this domain. Go get it, go buy it now. Because someone else is going to snag it up and sit on it and try to charge you a ton of money in the future for it. So go grab those domains while you can.

Speaker B

I agree with everything that you said, Kendra, and I think that what it really comes down to is when you are ready to start your own business, • • there’s a lot of thought that needs to go into it other than what is it called and what are my logos going to be? There’s a lot of different steps that you need to take and all of them need to be done intentionally and with a strategy in mind. So grabbing those domains, figuring out do you have the budget to have a website designer build you a SEO strong website that people are going to be clicking on and buying from you from? Are you ready on social media? Are you promoting yourself out there? Are you showing up and building a community around your brand and your business? Are you ready to sell and have your Instagram Act as that many websites so people can learn more about you and your product? All of these things are part of the bigger picture and they all have to be done intentionally. So that way when you’re ready when you’re ready to open your doors and say come buy from me, you have an audience that’s ready to buy from you both through search and organically. • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •

If you have been paying any attention at all. Instagram has released a lot of updates in the last year. A lot. Like a lot, a lot. And it can be hard to know which ones to pay attention to, which ones really matter, and what to do with all of these updates. I’ve seen a lot of people on Facebook groups saying, I’ve just given up using Instagram. It’s too much to figure out. And I think that that confusion, that frustration comes from the idea that you need to be using and implementing all of these new updates, along with all of the incredible features Instagram already has to offer. And that’s just not the case when it comes to social media and especially a platform like Instagram, where there are so many incredible features that you could be using, you have to figure out the ones that work best for you, what fits with your brand with your audience, what parts and features of Instagram is your audience really engaging with?

So today, what I want to do is I want to walk you through five of the latest updates that I personally have found to be really beneficial on Instagram. Plus, I want to share with you one bonus feature that is kind of in the works behind the scenes. They’re beta testing it currently, and I think it could be really beneficial as well. So I want to share that with you today in this episode. So let’s dive in with the first update, which is not really a new update, if you’ve been using Instagram for a while, because it’s Instagram reels.

Update #1: Video Content is Queen

And I know that some of you I can hear you right now through the headphones or rolling your eyes going, oh, uh, Kendra stopped talking about Reels. I get it. But let me tell you right now, from every single Instagram social media platform expert I have heard from, talk to, listen to, learn from, they are all saying the same thing. And that is that video content is raining supreme right now. I’m going to say that one more time, and I’m going to give you a moment to let it sink in. Video content is currently reigning supreme when, um, it comes to the type of content that’s getting noticed on social media. And Instagram’s version of this is reals. Now, live videos, you can still upload like IGTV style videos. It’s not called IGTV anymore, but you can still upload like pre recorded videos. But the number one current trend on Instagram is Instagram reels. Now, I know a lot of people hear things like Instagram reels, and you immediately think TikTok videos, you think silly dances, laughing and pointing, all those cheesy things. That doesn’t have to be what Instagram Reel is about.

And here’s a little bit of a behind the scenes insider tip. The trend currently with Instagram Reels is that more and more original audio reels are going viral. What that means is that we are still in the phase of yes. Um, like, trending reels are getting lots of traction. The ones that use trending audio, popular songs, dances, lip sync, those kinds of things are still popular. However, the use of original, uh, audio is starting to see a major uptick. So what does that mean? Original audio is anytime that you bring your own audio into your Instagram reel. Um, an example of this would be if I were to create an Instagram reel, sharing three tips on how to create a great Instagram bio. It would be short 30 seconds to 60 seconds at the Max. But I’m giving something of value. I’m using my own voice and it’s my original content. So this is becoming one of the newest trends within this Instagram Reels update. And if I were ranking sort of all of the Instagram updates over the last year or two, I would put reals and video content at the very top of that list because I think it has had the most impact on the audience that uses the Instagram app.

Whether you’re creating video content or consuming video content, it’s had a huge impact. And if you’re still holding out, if you’re still thinking, Kendra, I don’t do video. I don’t like doing video. I don’t want to do video. I hear you and I understand you. I’m just telling you that the future of Instagram marketing, the future of content marketing is leaning towards video. I think back to 25 years ago when my parents were running this small business out of my hometown and the Internet came along and all these businesses were hopping on the idea of need to have a website, we need to have a website. And my parents business was so small and it was just this family run business that they were not all about flashy sales marketing techniques. They were tried and true solid foundational marketing pieces. And they’ve been advertising in the Yellow Pages and in newspapers for years. And so when the Internet came along and they were approached, the idea of you should build a website, they were like, no, we don’t need a website. We’re going to stick with these yellow pages. And over time, their competition, who had jumped on the idea of this is where the trend is heading and had built their websites, started to surpass them. And they eventually had to play catch up by learning how to do what all these businesses were already doing and doing well. And so I look at that example, and I look at where we are right now, in digital marketing, and it’s the same exact thing. The only difference is it’s those of you that are holding on to that. I just want to post pretty pictures, and I just want to post my inspirational quotes. I don’t want to do these videos. You’re still holding on to those Yellow pages, phone books when the rest of the world has moved on to Internet marketing. So you can hold your ground. You can keep posting those pretty pictures, but eventually you’re going to become obsolete. If you don’t start dipping your toe into the idea of video content and you can start small, I promise it’s not as scary. I was very against video content at first. The more you do it, the easier it gets. But you have to take that first step and jump into starting or you’re always going to be sitting on the fence going, I wish I had started sooner, and then you’re going to be playing catch up to where everybody else already is.

Update #2: Collaborations

All right, so let’s move on to update number two, which is collaborations. And these kind of go hand in hand with Reals because they were first started off using them as a real collaboration. What collaboration means is that I can say, hey, my friend Katie Brinkley, who does the business busiest podcast, I can reach out to her and say, hey, Katie, let’s collaborate on this post or on this real. I’m going to create something, and then I’m going to add you as a collaborator, and now it’s going to show up on both of our feeds. So instead of us both having to post it out to our feed, it shows up on our feeds together as a collaboration. Now, this could be done as you work on a project together. So maybe Katie and I have done a couple of reels where she records part of it. I record part of it. We can buy it together to create a reel and you collaborate that way. Or it could be maybe you have collaborated on. This is a topic we both feel really passionate about, or it’s a podcast episode that we did together. So I’m going to tag Katie as a collaborator, and now it’s going to show up on her feed as a post that she has published, even though it is linked to me. It’s the post I created or vice versa. So what is the purpose of collaboration? Well, the goal of the collaboration is that you are expanding the reach of your content. So if I create a real or a piece of content and I collaborate with one or two other people and it’s now pushed out to their audience, their audience is now seeing my content or the content we created together. So it’s like saying, hey, I’m going to share you with my audience in a really low risk way because I’m not necessarily going to have to spend a whole lot of time getting on a live with you, or getting on a podcast interview with you, or working a ton of project together, or creating something together. We can just create a quick real a quick post, collaborate, and now we’re sharing each other with the other person’s audience. So collaborations are a really great way to expand the reach of your account to a wider, broader audience.

Now, when it comes to collaborations, you want to make sure you are collaborating with people who fit your niche. So I’m not going to go and collaborate with someone who is an online dog trainer because we don’t have enough in common. Our niches don’t align. It’s going to be very rare that someone in her dog training community is looking for a business coach. It’s going to be rare that someone in my business coaching community is going to be looking for a dog trainer. So it doesn’t make sense for us to collaborate. But if I were to collaborate with someone who is a Facebook ad specialist or a Pinterest marketing specialist, those are all things that I could collaborate with. And our audiences are going to be similar enough that it makes sense that we cross promote for each other. One question I get asked a lot in collaborations is how is it different than tagging someone? So when you go to create a post and you tag somebody on that post, they are notified that you have tagged them and it shows up in their tagged section of their feed. But they’re not putting their name on that content. They’re not saying that, hey, I approve this content and I want to put it onto my own feed as well. When you’re asking someone to collaborate with you, you are inviting them to then kind of put their name onto your content or the content you created together. So when you go to collaborate with someone, it’s best to make sure that you’ve had a conversation with that person ahead of time so that you’re not asking to collaborate with them when they don’t know who you are or you’re just trying to do it to get exposure, make sure you’re doing it with someone you have kind of a working, ongoing relationship with.

Update #3: Story Links for All!

Okay. Update number three is easily one of my favorite updates Instagram has done to date, and that is to add the link sticker to everybody’s stories. So in the past, you had to have that magical 10,000 followers in order to get the swipe up feature to where you could link to things in your Instagram stories, making it easy for somebody to swipe up and go to a different site or a part of your website or a page or shop or whatever. And so what happened in that case? Because you had this buried entry, you had to get that 10,000 followers. If you had people doing things like paying to buy followers just to get to that magical ten K number, and that’s not a good look for Instagram. They didn’t want people to feel like they had to buy followers to get there, so they removed that barrier. And now they’ve said, everybody gets the link sticker. And it’s amazing. However, what a lot of people have found is that this magical, mystical link sticker that everybody thought was going to change their business isn’t the magic piece that changes your business. It’s super helpful.

Don’t get me wrong. I love it. I love that I can post a story about today’s podcast episode and link directly to it. Or I can post about my Inbox Insider program and link directly to it. Or if another podcast, um, that I’m a guest on, I share the link or I share the promotional material they’ve put out for our episode. I can link to it because it’s not necessarily linked in my Instagram bio link, but with any new feature, there’s a couple of best practices to keep in mind. So before you dive into just willy nilly using your link sticker, keep in mind that when someone is clicking on that link sticker, it is taking them away from your Instagram page or your Instagram stories. So use it very wisely. Um, use it very strategically because you want to make sure that you’re not posting a link. And, um, then you’re posting five stories after that link that are really valuable stories, because then they’re clicking that link and they’re moving away from your stories. So you want to make sure that you have a very strategic plan. The other thing is, if every story you post has a link in it, people are going to become desensitized to it and they’re not going to want to click that link anymore. So my best practice is that if you’re going to post a link, you need to post a minimum of two to three stories before you share the link, explaining and talking about what it is you’re about to share. And then on that final story, you can share the link, but you have to give people some context. You have to give them a little bit of a build up instead of just throwing up a random link and helping people will click on it.

Update #4: Add Yours Stickers

Now, update number four is also a story sticker. It’s called the Add Your Sticker. And this may be something that you have seen in stories. You maybe saw it in your stickers, but you didn’t really know what it was, so you just kind of left it alone. So let me give you an example of what the ad or sticker is. And you may have seen this going around Instagram, but it will be someone will post a picture of their dog and they’ll add the Add Your Sticker and they’ll say, Share the last photo you have of your pet. And then other people can click on it and share to their stories a picture of their pet with the Add Your Sticker that you have started. And it kind of creates this chain of people adding their photos. So when you click on the sticker inside of someone’s stories, it’s going to show you everybody’s account that has added their photo to it. So the great thing about the add your sticker is it’s a really fun way to kind of see other accounts, to get seen by other accounts. And if you’re, um, the one who starts it or you’re the one who’s early to the sticker, then you can get some really great exposure. Plus, it’s just something fun. I think a lot of times on Instagram, we’re so focused on the business side of it, especially obviously, if you’re using it for business, that we forget that it should still be fun. And it’s a fun way to engage with other accounts. It’s a fun way to post something that’s maybe not necessarily business related. Or you could do like show me behind the scenes of your workspace or show me the last, uh, back of your camera photo. You took it as a photo shoot. If you’re a photographer, there’s, um, lots of things you can do kind of for your niche or your industry, but it can also just be a way to connect with people who maybe have something in common with you.

Update #5: New Feed Options

All right, so I saved maybe the best for the last or maybe the worst for last. I’m not sure how you want to look at this one, but it is the thing that has been all over Instagram for the last couple of weeks, and that is the new Instagram feed options. So I have some thoughts on this. But first, let me explain what the new feed options are. So in Instagram, when you log into your Instagram account, you have your home feed, so that’s where you’re able to see other people’s content. You’re scrolling through content of people that you follow. But the algorithm is also working its magic behind the scenes, and it is pushing content to your feed that it thinks you’re going to want to see.

So, for example, on my feed, I follow a lot of people who are kind of experts in the business and marketing world. And so my feed is full of business, uh, and marketing content. So Instagram knows that that is content I’m interested in. It’s going to show me content from accounts that it thinks that I will find enjoyable. Now, it also knows which accounts I engage with the most, and so it shows me their content above everybody else’s. So if I have someone that I follow that I haven’t really engaged with their content in two years, or maybe they’re not posting a lot of content, I’m not going to see that person’s content. And so I think this is where a lot of people get frustrated with the algorithm as they’re thinking, well, the algorithm is not showing my content to people.

But here’s the reality uh, behind it, guys. The algorithm is not out to get us. It’s not. It’s just not out to get us. It’s not how it’s designed. The algorithm is designed to make your experience as best as possible. It is designed to know and understand what you want before you even know you want it. So it is looking at all these data points, every story that you watch, every real that you like, every post that you comment on, everything you do is calculated. And so when Instagram, when you open up your Instagram feed, on that home feed, it is showing you a summary, essentially, of your own actions. So as a user, it’s hard to get mad at the algorithm, because in a way, we control the algorithm. If I were to go onto my Instagram right now and start spending the next five days only engaging with content that has to do with dogs, my algorithm is going to change, and I’m going to start to see content on my feed that has to do with dogs. So as a user, if you’re not seeing content that you want on your home feed, then take a look at what content you are engaging with. What are you telling the algorithm? Um, about yourself now, as a creator, as someone who is putting out content again, I hear people say all the time, the algorithm hates me. It’s against me. It’s not showing my content to anybody.

But here’s the thing, guys. You have to create content that people want to engage with so that they engage with it. And now it’s part of their algorithm. Do you see how it’s all kind of the cyclical thing. So when someone says the algorithm is against me, it kind of triggers a little bit of something inside me, because it’s not the algorithm, it’s your content. If you don’t have content that people want to engage with and are continually engaged with, or you’re not putting out enough content for people to engage with, then their algorithm isn’t going to know you exist. And that’s why you’re not getting seen. So I know it’s a little dose of harsh reality there, and I threw that in there with my feed update, but it’s just one of those things that kind of irks me. And I can’t stand when people say, like, oh, it’s the algorithm. It’s the algorithm. It’s not the algorithm.

We control the algorithm with our actions. The algorithm is just reflecting back to us what we have already told that we like or want. If you’re not creating content that people like or want, then, yeah, they’re not going to be showing your content. That’s just how it works. So let’s talk about the other two feed options. Now, when you log in to Instagram, the default feed is always going to be that home feed. Okay? So people are going to log in, they’re going to automatically see the home feed. I predict most people are going to continue to use the home feed and just scroll through as they normally would. It’s also the only feed that shows you Instagram stories. Now, if you choose to select one of the other two feeds, which are two chronological feeds, so you have favorites and you have following. So let’s talk about following. First. If someone were to select the following feed, what they would have to do is they have to log in to Instagram, they have to click on the little Instagram title and it will show a drop down that shows following and favorites. And they would choose which one they want to scroll through. If they choose following, it’s going to give them a home feed, essentially of everyone they, um, follow in chronological order of who posted the last. So here’s the thing with the following list. This is the one I see people probably using second most to the home feed because there’s a lot of people who have obviously said they want this. That’s why Instagram has done this. But in order to see who you’re following, it’s only going to show you that it will still show a mix of every type of content. So whether it’s a real estate post, a carousel, but it will be done based on the order which people have posted. Now, here’s the problem I see with the following feed and also sort of the favorites feed. People have said for years, um, bring back the chronological feed. This is what we want. But I question how much we really want that, because what happens when you post your content at 09:30 a.m. But your audience isn’t on the Internet isn’t on Instagram until 200 in the afternoon. Your content is so far down their chronological list that they’re never going to see it. And that means they’re going to engage even less with your content. So that means you have to be posting more content to get seen. So those people that are using that following feed, which that’s fine, go use the following feed. It just means you have to really know your audience. You have to know when they’re spending time on the app, when is the optimal time to post and you have to be posting multiple times a day. So that’s going to be a little bit of a challenge. And I honestly think that as much as people think they want the following feed, they’re going to end up going back to the home feed because they’re missing out on people’s content. Um, so I’m going to use Katie as an example again.

So if I’m following Katie and I go to my following feed and she doesn’t post until 04:00 in the afternoon, but I’m on my feed, on my app at 03:00, I don’t see her content. So I assume she hasn’t posted today. I log off the app, I don’t check, uh, it again for a couple of hours. So my kids are in bed. By that time, her content is way down the list because it’s already been several hours later, I’m never going to see her content. I’m going to engage less with her content. And now the algorithm now thinks that I no longer want to engage with her content. However, had I been on my home feed, where the algorithm knows that Katie is someone that I like to engage with, someone that I engage with all of her content, it doesn’t matter what time she posts, I’m going to see her content on my feed. So that’s where all these people who have said, and maybe you’re one of the ones who have said it, they’ve said the algorithm is bad. Give us chronological order. I think they’re going to realize pretty quickly that they really don’t want chronological order. Or maybe they do for a short period of time, but they want to go back to that home feed pretty often as well. So the third feed option is Favorites. And what Favorites does is kind of like, I gave the example before. It’s like the MySpace top eight. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re probably too young to be here. But that’s fine. So it’s you telling Instagram these are the 50 up to 50, uh, accounts that I want to see content from the most. So I would go into again with Katie. She’s someone I want to see content from. I’m going to add her to my Favorites list. That means I have to manually go into her page, her Instagram account. I’m going to click on the following button. It’s going to give me a list, and it’s going to say Add to Favorites. I select that. It puts a little star on her feed for me. So when I click on my Favorites list, I will now see her content again in chronological order. But because it’s limited to no more than 50 accounts, there’s a greater chance of me seeing her content. So this could be a great feed for someone who’s like, hey, the algorithm feed is fine, but sometimes I just want to see the content from these certain people. Maybe it’s your family, your best friends, people you’re in a networking group with, um, your clients, whatever. You can go and add them to your Favorites list. It doesn’t tell them that they’ve been added to the Favorites list. It’s kind of like the close friends list within Instagram as well. It doesn’t tell them that they’re on that list and you can add them or move them at any time. But it is a great way to kind of filter down who you’re seeing content from. So, as a creator on Instagram, two things I would recommend encouraging your audience to do. One is to ask them to add you to their Favorites list.

Again, if you’re not creating content that they want to continually engage with, they’re not going to do this. No matter what just because they’re following you doesn’t mean that they are actively engaged with your content. So you have to be consistently putting out good content. And then if you say, hey, add me to your favorites list, there’s a pretty good chance they will add you to their favorites list because they want to see your content. The second thing you can do is if someone is following you and they go to your Instagram page next to your name, there will be a little Bell icon. Tell them to click on that Bell and turn on notifications for your account so this will notify them. Anytime that you create a story, a post or a real, you can say hey, if you want to be notified each time I post to my stories so you can stay up to date, keep in touch. Find out what’s going on behind the scenes. Turn on your notifications for stories. Same thing with Post and Reels, so that’s going to also help to get you kind of front of mind so that you don’t get lost in the chronological fees or the speed at which content moves on Instagram. So to wrap up that last little update, I will say again, there are a lot of people right now on Instagram and across the Internet who are kind of freaking out about this whole feed change. And what does it mean for my posting strategy and what does it mean for this and what does it mean for that?

My two cent on that is one I truly believe and I may be proven wrong here, but I truly believe that 90% of people on Instagram are going to continue to use the home feed. That algorithm feed for two reasons. One, it’s just easier when you log in that’s the feed that you get. You have to manually switch to another feed every single time you can’t go into your settings and manually change it for good. You’re going to log into that home feed and then choose to go to favors or following. I think people are not always going to take that extra step to choose a list to go see, at least not for the full time that they’re scrolling. The second thing is things take time. Right now, people are kind of panicking and freaking out going, what does this mean? What’s it going to change? How is it going to affect me? We don’t know the answers to those things yet, so there’s a lot of people on Instagram going, here’s what you need to do in order to make sure your content gets seen and make sure that you aren’t getting lost in the chronological feed. That’s fine. But sometimes it’s okay to just kind of let the dust settle and see where things land. I put out a poll on my Instagram stories recently, and I asked, which feed do you think that you’ll use the most? The majority of people still said the home feed. So I personally am not going to let it stress me out. I’m not going to make a ton of changes to how I do my content until I get a little bit more information on how this is impacting accounts or how people are actually engaging in using these different feeds. So if you’re someone who’s like, I don’t know what to think about this. Just let the dust settle a little bit and see where it lands.

BONUS Update: Subscriptions Coming Soon!

All right? Now, at the beginning of episode, I told you that I was going to share one bonus update with you. So here it is. Right now, Instagram is beta testing with multiple accounts, a new update called Subscriptions. Now what this is it is a way kind of like Patreon, if you’re familiar with Patreon, where you can pay for different subscriptions to get exclusive content from people, but they’re taking that concept and putting it directly into Instagram. So they are going to have a way for your followers to choose to pay to subscribe to exclusive content from you. Now, I don’t have access to this yet. I’m not 100% sure sort of how it all looks just yet or how it all works. But my basic understanding of it is that if you’re following me on Instagram and I say, hey, for a dollar a month, you can subscribe to that exclusive content where every week I’m going to do exclusive lives and trainings and I’m going to put out different reals or content just for you, then people will can pay the one dollars a month through the app and they will then be able to kind of see the content that not everybody else can see on your account. Again, I don’t have the specifics of how this will look exactly or how it’s going to be completely rolled out. Like with all other features and new updates, Instagram rolls them out kind of slowly to test them and see how things go. So if it’s not something you see for a while or hear about, don’t worry about it. But I do think this could be a really cool feature. I know that Patreon and things like that have been really successful, especially with creator accounts, podcasts, things like that. And it could be a really fun way to kind of monetize your Instagram account. So if you’re wondering why I shared this with you when it’s not widely available yet, it’s because I want you to start thinking about what are some ways you might be able to use this feature in the future. What can you do within your business that you could offer as an upgrade? Content, subscription? What are some things that you could do that might make people want to pay to have access to exclusive content from you? So I just wanted to kind of get the wheels spinning. I wanted you to start thinking about how you could be using this in your business if and when this feature becomes available. All right guys, so that is going to conclude our conversation this week on Instagram updates. Like I said at the beginning of the episode, these updates are coming out fast. There’s a lot of them. Please don’t let it overwhelm. You just focus on the ones that are going to help move your business forward. Now get comfortable with those and then move on to the next ones. Do not feel like you have to implement all of these at one time. I just wanted to share them with you so that you could kind of cherry pick the ones that you feel like are going to be best for you.

And if we’re not already friends on Instagram, please make sure you go follow me at Girl Means Business.

Send me a DM let me know what you thought of this episode. If you have questions about any of these updates or other ones that you’re using on Instagram or seeing on Instagram, please feel free to reach out. My DMs are always open and I’m more than happy to share my thoughts, give advice, feedback or just have a conversation with you. So come send me a DM and say Hi tell me you heard me here on the podcast. All right guys, have a great week. I will see you back here next week. Mhm thank you so much for joining us today.